No Excuses For Not Knowing Where To Start Hunting Fossils!

[Ray Eklund]

I have read a number of posts that are asking others WHERE CAN I FIND FOSSILS? Very few collectors who have spent months, if not years to find that one special spot should be expected to give out the location publicly.

But... can I offer some advice of experience?

My library, if I may call it that, consists of maybe 40,000 volumes... maybe more. You must research the current and old literature to locate old fossil locations and use the newer publications for modern terminology of the fossils you do find. My hunting down private libraries exceeded my expectations that I even began to sell off material that I would not be using. You can start with the first or the tenth reference on your own.

Narrow down as to WHAT you have an interest. Lets throw out Cretaceous Reptiles of Western Kansas.

First. The University of Kansas and the Kansas Geological Survey have papers with locations down to the acre and what is to be found. Maps can be purchased from the US Geological Survey in the scale that suits you... but with GPS you can get close to 19th century original exposures.

Second. A local University stocks many of the regional geology and paleontology references. Find the pages that you are interested, take notes or just "xerox" the pages you need.

Third. Ask questions on the Fossil Forum. Many members are more than eager to help someone who is looking for information in earnest. If you know enough already to be dangerous... even I am anxious to help... but lets not ask for... "I want to find Lower Cambrian trilobites, so where are you getting those nice multiple complete specimens in eastern Nevada?" Put out a little effort and information on the Forum... and see what might be offered as help.

Fourth. New locations are discovered every year! Learn to read a geological map and then with some insight and luck... try to predict where some exposures could possibly be located that are NOT shown on the most up to date maps. Works for me... it will work for you too.

Fifth. If you really want to find something... you just need to start looking in the books and papers of that area's geology. Specialize. Become an expert in several areas. Cooperate with knowledgeable collectors that share your similar interests.

Sixth. Do not give up. When things seem the most dismal and nothing is to be found anywhere... you actually stumble across the most concentrated exposure of fossils known.

(North of Oldenburg, Indiana I found in 1970 some of the best preserved Isotelus and Flexicalymene trilboites in a creek bed. Isotelus at 12 inches and splitting them in the creek bed. I told a person in Indianapolis about them when I was leaving Fort Benjamin Harrison. Twentyfive years later I decided to stop back at the site... and someone had taken a small dozer and cleaned the site out. So... be careful who you give your locations out to.)

[JohnJ]

Well said, Ray. Thanks for sharing your insights.

[Fossildude19]

I agree, whole heartedly.

Thanks for this sober articulation, Ray.

If you are new to the hobby, realize that you need to "pay your dues" by doing the due dilligence work.

Research, and lots of driving and hiking around to find the old spots.

Lots of canvassing door to door to find land owners, and gain permission. Lots of refusals mixed in there.

The info is out there, you just need to gather it.

I don't mind that people ask for info, so much, as I mind the attitude that ensues if/when that info is not readily forthcoming.

I've worked at this for years, and did a lot of searching and research pre-internet. I'm not handing over site info just cause someone asked.

Even if they ask with a pretty please.

You definitely need to choose your hunting partners with care.

I try to vet potential partners at one of my lesser sites before I bring them to the honeyholes.

But sometimes, even that isn't enough.

Luckily, I have been more pleased than not with my choices in site sharing with others.

Must be that getting older I am more discerning of character.

Regards,

[Ray Eklund]

The snow is flying and I walked our two Blue Heelers in the process of coming up with several ideas. This Spring... you will have to find me camped out in some place only a GPS can locate.

Index Fossils of North America by Shimer and Shrock.

For invertebrates this is a MUST HAVE book. I paid $20 for mine in 1967... today in the $50 to $100 range used. From 1946 to whatever the latest printing... I see copies up to $800... wait for the $100 copy. They are all the same. The original copies were by Grabau and Shimer around 1910 in two volumes. They are OK if you like old books and want to part with your hard earned gas money meant for getting to those special fossil locations when the snow melts!

The Treatise of Invertebrate Paleontology edited by Raymond C. Moore and Roger L. Kaesler

Now available new through the Geological Society of America by which ever volume you require. Also used copies on the internet for sale. The latest edition you can find is the most current, but if an older edition is available much cheaper... get it. My first volume was for identifying trilobites- Arthropoda 1, Trilobita revised, (1) with Kaesler- editor, 1997 edition. Mine was around the 1965 edition, but this latest one has some additions and corrections. Where... don't ask, you would have to flip back and forth to compare what changed! The older volume is as wonderful for we, and I say we, trilobite collectors. I love trilobites and recall the Silica and Sylvania, Ohio quarries as well for weekend rock knocking.

(Raymond C. Moore and I visited when I first had my driver's license. He was a member of the Kansas Geological Survey and he took me around the drawers of Pennsylvanian crinoids found in the Lane Shale in the Kansas City, Missouri area. Remember... I was a fossil nut case. There are still good sites along the Kansas turnpike just west of KC, Kansas. You have to find it yourself, as that was in the late 1960's.)

Be weary of new paper back generalized books. You pay $19.95 and can buy them used for a $1.00. Go high tech and you will use the book until you pass it off to a grandchild with some ability to find those strange critters.

The Treatise has about 40 volumes and very expensive today. My advice... just buy the volumes you have a need. Arthropods might have five volumes from Ostracods to spiders. Mollusca... everyone one goes for the Ammonites and the Cretaceous mollusks and makes up seven volumes. Pick only the ones you can use.

Here is my offer to you.

You tell us something about yourself and WHY you want to collect a particular fossil, vertebrate or invertebrate. What area and the local geology where you live and where you want to go to explore. I will do my best to help if you have put some time into this search of yours. Other readers will do the same as the Forum is full of unused energetic collectors. I will give you some possible ideas of references that are readily available... if something comes into mind.

There is one thing I enjoy more than finding a fossils and that is to help someone learn HOW to find a new location. Most important finds are these small localized finds with a mass death layer, like the fossil Eocene fish of western Wyoming which is a huge area of annual fish kills. The locations are always... small... but very obvious to the observer that it is special. And from the help given to you by fellow members in your research... TELL US what you found. It need not be the find of the century... maybe just the find of the day.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Ray Eklund

[Stocksdale]

I for one find quite a bit of enjoyment out of reading about an old location and then finding that exact spot on google earth. The anticipation of finding a location and planning the possible trip can be almost as much fun as going.

[Uncle Siphuncle]

sharing can be quite enjoyable. in fact i took a friend out today to a productive site i found recently, and we got great ammonites and nautiloids. i did this with no fear of the site being soon wiped out, but then again, i've been collecting with this guy for enough years to know that we respect each others' efforts, we don't

pressure each other for sites, we don't crowd

each other in the field, and when one of us finds

a good site, the other patiently awaits an invite,

and no offense is taken if there is only enough

potential to take immediate family.

in short i've had no problems with philosophically similar, hard working, respectful collectors of experience who respect boundaries and

intuitively grant gentlemanly distance afield.

while experience in another collector, including

the experience of being burned, generally helps

us see eye to eye regarding sites, i've shared

with many others of less experience.

in short, if i recognize true work ethic, defined as the desire to blaze one's own trail combined with the ability to respect another person's work, i

don't care as much if they can reciprocate in

kind. when i can see that i'm in control of how

deep my sharing goes, i'm most comfortable

sharing. when people don't have an intuitive

sense of when to pull away, things take on a

more draining flavor.

but i still have productive sites in mind that i'm done with, and i tend to share them with strangers who ask. that way if they can't control themselves, it doesn't impact my future

prospects, nor my future ability to share with

family and those i may later cross paths with whom have paid their dues.

in short it's often a struggle between wanting to share, but figuring out how to do so without losing it all, and giving the sites time to weather properly for the next visit.

Edited January 14, 2014 by danwoehr

[Herb]

Also you can do what I do . Stop and look at every outcrop you see, and see if there are fossils.(safely stop at). I have saved a couple otherwise bad "planned " trips that way.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Herb

[Uncle Siphuncle]

experience alone should not be your only consideration when sharing. there are experienced "one way street" collectors out there, fully willing to accept your site info, but not reciprocate in kind, despite their equal ability to do so. i guess it's easier to spend what someone else has earned than to spend your own. food for thought.

[Ray Eklund]

I for one find quite a bit of enjoyment out of reading about an old location and then finding that exact spot on google earth. The anticipation of finding a location and planning the possible trip can be almost as much fun as going.

After coming back from the Post Office today I was thinking of www.zillow.com, which offers similar aerial photography.

Looking for an Indiana quarry used in the 1870's and now buried under brush and trees... zillow the general area. Once you recognize ONE aerial view quarry, you are in business. Or, at least know where and the closest resident's location.

I have been doing some metal detecting of 1866-1868 Union Pacific Rail Road camp sites. I had found one outline of a large tent that had a dug drainage around the tent and an entry way. Inside were new Sharps 55 cal. bullets, 44 Henry's, round balls, square nails... but nothing of any particular value. I began to "zillow" the area and could see this former tent site from the 1860's. Now this is only because I am looking for "one man's trash is another's treasure" mode at the present time.

But, you can hunt for very obvious outcrops of rock formations that may be of interest to you. Many fossil and rock collectors do not take advantage of these "tricks" of the hunt. I do. You can also find an interesting location from home, get a location, call the County seat and get the name of the current owner. Bingo....

Fortunately for myself, I am offering this information for the benefit of the many. Even my "essays" on the Nebraska Badlands and detailed locations that you might be able to access from the latest Ranch owner.

Dan Woehr speaks from experience. My position is that once I have hunted an area to my satisfaction, I will introduce a close trusted friend to come with me next. He may find one part that you were missing from a previous day of collecting. A bit of horse trading to complete an other wise specimen missing a major piece. I also know the difference between someone who has "rock sense" and can follow the scent of a good fossil location. Then, there are those who can be standing on top of the finest specimen yet to be discovered and not recognize it, five feet below his nose. We all have our distinct styles of collecting and understanding the information that is in front of you.

Look around your neighborhood. There are hills, ponds, rock outcrops, trees, bushes, bare ground... a variety of different potential future fossil forming terrane. Now look at a terrestrial deposit, mostly Tertiary in the west... imagine that there would be filled in creek/river beds, ponds, lakes scattered about at what appears to be totally flat sedimentary deposits. Find what is not ordinary. As you get into ocean deposits and move further from shore... things become more consistent. Out in the Western USA you can find a shallow Triassic inlet sediment full of reptiles, where otherwise there was nothing.

Pull out the map with cross sections and facies changes. Find the "odd" contacts. This applies to the Cambrian to the Pleistocene. Your backyard is a beginning. Geological maps are only as accurate as the Base Map it is taken from. You might find the rock exposed a half mile off, maybe more. Just a slight change in color in the sediment can be a major FIND.

Tertiary rocks in the Rockies. Look for slight color changes in the sediments. Fine clay to grit to pebbles... Maybe the large cache of fossils remain 500 feet from you with 300 feet of overburden... or it could be sticking out of the gully on the other side of the hill.

Take that Geology 100 class at night school. Look at some aerial photographs used in petroleum exploration. Take a weekend to follow the outcrops, one step at a time. Find something different... pull out the GPS and take down the location. Look at Google Earth or Zillow and follow the exposures. It will become a challenge and fun. Make a note of a spot to check. All it takes is a change in the stratigraphy of inches to produce wonderful finds.

If you do not think it is possible... then buy one of those booklets that shows where to find things already located. By now there is nothing left to find. Take the initiative and find your own undiscovered spot. I did it at 16 and I can do it now at 64. Smart or lucky people do not find these hidden places. Only those with sore feet and a sun burn from wanting something that nobody else has set eyes upon. Then... you and I will get along real well.

[Cainozoic]

I am always keen to show people around or take them fossil hunting, especially tourists. The further away they live the better as I understand how long it takes to find a good spot. I once told a local about a quarry I had unofficial permission to enter and she became obsessed with collecting there. The quarry owner was so annoyed he put a padlock on the gate. She decided to bolt cut the lock and replace it with another with keys in it in a hope that she could use her own key to enter. Needless to say now the quarry owner will not allow anyone to enter no matter what. It was my best spot, breaks my heart. You must be careful who you tell, not everyone thinks the same way as you do, sometimes it takes a reminder. Having said that I would love to meet someone local who shared my passion for hunting. Happy hunting everyone.

Cheers,

Cain.

[jpc]

I for one find quite a bit of enjoyment out of reading about an old location and then finding that exact spot on google earth. The anticipation of finding a location and planning the possible trip can be almost as much fun as going.

I have, as of yesterday, done just the opposite. See, there's this one area I've been collecting for 15 yrs. I found it by doing the usual library work and footwork. And yesterday I was given a pile of old topo and geology maps. And wouldn't you know it... the one topo map my sites are on is in the pile... but not the actual topo map, the geology map of the topo. Fossil sites are mapped on it. Turns out my site was known and mapped by one of the big paleo institutions in this country. Back in the 70's, I think.

Dilemma now...do I leave it for them, or continue collecting? As the landowner has told me that no one else has been out there, I keep on collecting. If they ever want to go back there, there will still be plenty for them when I am done.

Edited January 15, 2014 by jpc

[ZiggieCie]

Now that I don't have to waste time working anymore I have been able to get back into fossil hunting.

1st. Join a Fossil club, even if you have to drive a hundred miles to get to the monthly meetings, the access you gain to wonderful sites and informed, experienced people is worth any cost. The North Coast Fossil club and Dry Dredgers are two for great examples.

2nd. Research on the net. Club outing reports, State geological survey reports, College scientific term papers, survey and Report trip maps, will often give you very good locations and lists of many of the expected Fossils.

3rd. Google Earth will let you explore many sites before you pack your car. Their photo resolution is so good you can plan your stops ahead of time.

4th. Keep your Fossils separated for each location you stop. as many sites can have diff ages and formations on the same cut. Zip lock sandwich bags and marking pen so I don't forget what came from where. Too easy to do on a good day.

Just a few ideas from a new Guy.

ps. Also on Google Earth, at the bottom right hand corner are the GPS qoordinates and altitude of the location you are interested in. Put them into your GPS and go to the area you found. Also remember to put the GPS numbers on the records you set up, so your Fossils have a home.

Edited January 15, 2014 by ZiggieCie

[Ray Eklund]

Just a few ideas from a new Guy.

For a "new guy" you already know more than most!

I can't wait until you are one of us "old guys"... just leave a few things for us.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Ray Eklund

[Ray Eklund]

Dilemma now...do I leave it for them, or continue collecting? As the landowner has told me that no one else has been out there, I keep on collecting. If they ever want to go back there, there will still be plenty for them when I am done.

Do you realize that "institutions and universities" have had thousands of students and millions of dollars to RETURN if they felt it necessary. Take what you can use and leave intact what you cannot use.

If you find something that is so unusual... take a photograph and let the latest author of a report know about the find. Other than that... I would not lose any sleep over it.

[squali]

I have, as of yesterday, done just the opposite. See, there's this one area I've been collecting for 15 yrs. I found it by doing the usual library work and footwork. And yesterday I was given a pile of old topo and geology maps. And wouldn't you know it... the one topo map my sites are on is in the pile... but not the actual topo map, the geology map of the topo. Fossil sites are mapped on it. Turns out my site was known and mapped by one of the big paleo institutions in this country. Back in the 70's, I think.

Dilemma now...do I leave it for them, or continue collecting? As the landowner has told me that no one else has been out there, I keep on collecting. If they ever want to go back there, there will still be plenty for them when I am done.

jpc,

most of the collectible sites in New Jersey have been mapped and id'd by institutions. we are still allowed to access them except for the ones specifically protected ie. ellisdale and inversand etc...

[Missourian]

There are many excellent tips in this thread.

Speaking of Google, I had just realized the potential in the new terrain maps used in Google Maps, which apparently uses radar altimetry data:

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/42881-google-maps-updated-terrain/

Many 'hidden' topographic variations now stand out like sore thumbs.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Missourian

[Uncle Siphuncle]

I am always keen to show people around or take them fossil hunting, especially tourists. The further away they live the better as I understand how long it takes to find a good spot. I once told a local about a quarry I had unofficial permission to enter and she became obsessed with collecting there. The quarry owner was so annoyed he put a padlock on the gate. She decided to bolt cut the lock and replace it with another with keys in it in a hope that she could use her own key to enter. Needless to say now the quarry owner will not allow anyone to enter no matter what. It was my best spot, breaks my heart. You must be careful who you tell, not everyone thinks the same way as you do, sometimes it takes a reminder. Having said that I would love to meet someone local who shared my passion for hunting. Happy hunting everyone.

Cheers,

Cain.

I echo your sentiments, Cain. I don't have any prejudice with the locals, other than the fact that they live too close to the sites I could show them, and are subject to the temptations of human nature...if they aren't particularly driven by the pride of finding their own success as independently as possible. I've share sites in the past perhaps in blind faith, then through whatever self serving rationalization suited a few of these guests, I have quickly lost good sites due to unauthorized sharing, usurpation, even commercialization. One guy opened a website just to sell fossils found at my sites!

This type of conduct changed my outlook on dealing with people. Naivete dissipates quickly in this situation. As for dealing with locals, let's for a moment equate site sharing with the loan industry. Until I know someone well, things are easiest kept honest when collateral sites are shared in equal value and number. Collateral is an accepted way of maintaining an agreement in the banking industry, and I see no reason why human nature would be any different when dealing with fossils sites. In both cases, someone is asking to use something of value, earned by someone else, and without any "skin in the game", there is a percentage of people willing to take advantage of either situation.

So now I try to mingle with people who don't covet what another person has, instead preferring to blaze their own trail, and when that isn't panning out, they are content to operate within self earned means. Magnanimous invitations fly back and forth between my buddies and me. They are never expected, but always appreciated, and in time, reciprocated. It is comforting to have friendships where everyone involved gives without measure, and no one is keeping score, because nobody has to, or wants to. But it takes time to get to that point.

For me, I'm more open when dealing with long distance collectors. That way we can treat each other to very good sites while traveling, without much worry about residual impact on the sites. Most people are respectful, but long distance logistics provide a chance to realize that at low risk. Plus I like to travel, so it's a good arrangement for all involved.

I figure that locals have just as much time and ability to research and find worthwhile sites as I do. Joe Gallo has magnanimously provided a huge number of PDF papers on TFF, available to anyone for free, for various types of material and localities around the world. I've outlined an approach on this website that I've found effective in locating good sites and obtaining permission...this was in response to seeing so many site requests with little prior effort to help one's self. The approach I mentioned is pretty straight forward, but requires expense, time and effort. It still works.....I used it to locate and obtain permission to 4 quarries this coming weekend.

[NatureGalTx]

As a relative newbie to this hobby, at least by FF standards.. I thought it might be appropriate to comment...

It is extremely impressive ( and as a novice, completely unappreciated) how difficult it is to find a productive, yet available site (due to the zoning, state laws, or the laws of the residents who own the land.)

As a novice, I simply had NO IDEA the enormous amount of work, time, research, expense that goes into finding a fossil site. As these are NON renewable resources, it becomes more apparent why experienced collectors are reluctant to share site information. It is funny the more I have grown to enjoy fossil hunting, I find myself becoming protective over my favorite locations and have gained a small appreciation for the hobby and have gleaned a better understanding of experienced collectors reluctance to share site info.

I have to echo the sentiments expressed by a previous post as it is a view that Dan and I share… the further away the fossil collector lives, the easier it is to share site info. It is very rare to establish the kind of friendship, mutual respect that Dan shares with his friend!!

Dan always closes his posts with "To the motivated go the spoils." He's right.

[Stocksdale]

I was thinking of www.zillow.com, which offers similar aerial photography.

I've not tried zillow, but will check that out. I use the historic image button on Google earth often. Usually Google Earth images only goes back to the 1990s but sometimes it shows something.

Recently, I'd been finding many of the old coal spoil piles and old coal mines here in Illinois. Google earth with the "terrain setting" turned to "3" is very good for those purposes. With that setting, a little coal pile looks like a mountain rising out of the midwest flatness. I had fun locating and mapping out every one of the carboniferous "Mazon Creek" spots of George Langford on Google earth using their old notes regarding the old spoil piles. http://www.georgesbasement.com/Langford-FieldNotes/Webpage/TableOfContents-GLFieldNotes-1937-1960.htm

One other tip about Google earth is that once you've marked locations, you can upload those to "my maps" and then access them in the field on your mobile phone.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Neophytus Elginian

[Stocksdale]

I'll add that I've also used the Historical Aerials site. Some really interesting old aerial maps there.

http://www.historicaerials.com/

[Ray Eklund]

As a novice, I simply had NO IDEA the enormous amount of work, time, research, expense that goes into finding a fossil site. As these are NON renewable resources, it becomes more apparent why experienced collectors are reluctant to share site information. It is funny the more I have grown to enjoy fossil hunting, I find myself becoming protective over my favorite locations and have gained a small appreciation for the hobby and have gleaned a better understanding of experienced collectors reluctance to share site info.

The lucky ones as yourself... are the new collectors. Everything is important and something to study.

I DO agree with the need of a good, productive site to be well managed by those who discover them. I do myself. What I wanted to add was to dispute the idea of the non renewable aspect that has hampered "amateur collectors" for the last 50 years of paleontology.

********

I cut out one paragraph of your post to dispute an attitude that has really, little merit and repeated by those in the "research and university circles."

(As these are NON renewable resources, it becomes more apparent why experienced collectors are reluctant to share site information.) This is not true at all and has taken fossil collecting by the "unpaid enthusiast" and made to appear by those "paid professionals" that the amateur collector is destroying rather than preserving fossil evidence.

Erosion has ruined 99%+ of all fossils known. Fossils are actually common and most specimens are easily found if necessary. When conditions are right... fossils are found in vast quantities just upon the surface and weathering into its basic chemical elements. When conditions are not right... fossils are not found, may never be found and probably not an area an amateur would be collecting anyways.

More important fossils to science have been found and recovered and reported by AMATEURS! Paid university professionals describe and connect the dots after a specimen has been reported to them. There is and will never be a shortage of fossil specimens. Even fossil Hominids are being discovered today either from erosion or paleontological digs supported by international financing. We are unique in North and South America... none of us can be accused of contaminating 1,000,000 year old human ancestors as... there are none.

Anyone who collects and documents their fossils is doing paleontology a SERVICE. If, and this is a very remote chance, you discover a site that contains unique material... report the site to the "authority" of this kind of fossil. They will confirm or deny if there is any importance to your find... and you can proceed minding your own business.

In my experience collecting vertebrate (mammals and Tertiary reptiles) NONE I found were new or unique. None. The professionals were envious of the selection and quality... but they had been described 150 years ago or 50 years ago.

Non Renewable Fossils should be removed from your thought process. Erosion will take care of this over the history of Earth. Fossils are being formed today and those of the past will be brought to the surface with tectonic activity. Maybe 5,000,000,000 years from today, someone or some thing will find the Holocene formations full of our remains and cultural "fossils". And they will be so common that the majority of the material found will not even raise an eye brow or... lid.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Ray Eklund

[Stocksdale]

I agree with your overall point that fossils are quite common in the world. However, NatureGalTx is correct in labeling them a non-renewable resource.

For example, coal....Coal is very common in the world and found in many rock formations and is slowly still being formed in peat bogs. I highly doubt we'll ever dig out all of the coal from the earth (but I think we humans will likely try). But to say that coal is a not a non-renewable resource would be very misleading.

But, I completely agree 100% with what you say about Amateurs doing Paleontology a service by collecting material that would otherwise have disappeared by erosion, land development, and reclamation of old mines.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Neophytus Elginian

[Ray Eklund]

I agree with your overall point that fossils are quite common in the world. However, NatureGalTx is correct in labeling them a non-renewable resource.

For example....Coal is very common in the world and found in many rock formations and is slowly still being formed in peat bogs. I highly doubt we'll ever dig out all of the coal from the earth (but I think we humans will likely try). But to say that coal is a not a non-renewable resource would be very misleading.

Yes, I have to agree with the overall terminology, although lets look at it this way.

Is sand a non renewable resource?

Is Uranium a non renewable resource?

Is Helium a non renewable resource?

Is energy from the Sun a non renewable resource?

I would have to say YES to all of those, although even sand appears to be common. Physics tells us that everything in energy and matter are non renewable. We will eventually, and not we as humans, but the Universe will consume everything.

I have been told since I was 15 years old that is was OK to collect invertebrate fossils... but not vertebrates. Not from fellow collectors but Professors of paleontology at Universities. When I showed them my fossil insects from Florissant, Colorado... well, insects should not be collected as well. Brachiopods, coral and bryozoans are OK... and crinoid stems.

This is where I made the "disconnect". I was told I needed a degree in Geology to "collect fossils".

When I had my BS in Geology. You needed a PhD to collect fossils.

What? I thought to myself. Then if you had a PhD, you had to be affiliated with a University or "sanctioned" by a Museum.

Do you understand my attitude from my experiences? A fossil specimen is SAFER in a collection than weathering outdoors.

As you can tell, this topic has changed from locating sources of information to "find and collect fossils" to "non renewable fossils". This happens so frequently that the discussion spirals into groups and bickering. Everyone tip toes around the concept of amateurs collecting... as if it is taboo. You wonder why today's students care less about being outdoors and... gasp... picking up a fossil or even worse... an Indian artifact.

The BEST collections of fossils I have been shown are in the hands of collectors. Private collectors who enjoy being outdoors and find pride in their finds. If you find coiled Phacops rana in a streams's sand bar... save them from further damage! Same with Ordovician trilobites... save them. Do not feel this stigma about they being rare or non renewable. There are BILLIONS still locked up tight for safe keeping in the Ordovician and Devonian! Life is too short. Get out there and ENJOY WHAT NATURE HAS PROVIDED.

Lets drop this nonsense about non-renewable resource. Everything is non-renewable but will be recycled in the next BIG BANG.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Ray Eklund

[Auspex]

Man brings all things to the test of himself, and the human scale of time really is his only intuitive vantage point.

Who among us doesn't want to leave an indelible mark across the face of the eons?

Within the human time scale, I think it is safe to say that science is, by any accounting, enriched by the strivings of amateurs, and that the depth and breadth of knowledge would be lessened were it not for their contributions.

[Stocksdale]

I agree completely, Ray. The amount of fossils that exist right below the very spot where any of us are standing or sitting at this very moment is staggering.