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Ray Eklund

Fossil Detective Process

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Coco

Congrats ! I think that this subject should be pinned !

Coco

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Herb

Well said!

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erose

Ray, Nicely said and hopefully helpful to all our newbies and visitors. And Rich has added a very important point about what to expect and how to behave on the forum.

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JohnJ

Congrats ! I think that this subject should be pinned !

Coco

I thought the same, Coco, but my steaks were about to burn on the grill... :D

Well said, Ray. It will go nicely with the other pinned topics. ;)

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Ray Eklund

I thought the same, Coco, but my steaks were about to burn on the grill... :D

Well said, Ray. It will go nicely with the other pinned topics. ;)

You are being too generous in my attempt to those members with an "unknown" by providing some difficult requests of information needed to identify a fossil found by a Forum member. I will attempt to clean up my language used in my first post, some to edit the message, and also adding what I consider other important details that help in all of the finds by members that stretch the imagination .

Fossil Identification is both an ART and a factor of EXPERIENCE. Both are skills fine tuned with field work and there is no experienced Forum member who wants to have a question to go unanswered. RichW9090 understands, just like Herb, and that is the point that some unknowns need to be recognized by the right person at the right time.

Edited by Ray Eklund

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oldrocker

Thank you, very helpful. I am posting my first find today. Hope I do it right! :D

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James_S

Seriously people would go all snarky for you if what you said was not what they expected? Like (taking an example from OP) they thought it must have been a turtle and you cleared and proved it was not? My gosh, that's so impolite! You;re doing something for free, in your spare time and some would complain about it instead of saying thanks I appreciate it? People are so ungrateful.

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Auspex

People are also human, in all their glory and for better or worse. ;)

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Uncle Siphuncle

Haven't seen much input from Ray lately...hope he resurrects himself here. I enjoyed his perspective.

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Ray Eklund

Haven't seen much input from Ray lately...hope he resurrects himself here. I enjoyed his perspective.

I had been "politely" asked not to participate on the Fossil Forum by bringing up Evolution, creating a sequence of fossils found in sedimentary rocks, and I was also expressing myself too... whatever. I told the Administrators of the forum that I would voluntarily remove myself and no longer participate. They may want to post their Private Messages sent to me.

Since when is a Fossil Forum anti Evolution? Some people complained bringing up the subject was not appropriate. Then... it spiraled into a personal vendetta by three or four Administrators "voting" me off the Forum.

I said it was their Forum, and they can make their own rules. I will not change my position on Evolution... even if some forum members believe it violates their religious beliefs. So, until I received a notice from danwoehr wondering why I have no longer added any input, you now know the rest of the story.

I took their complaints towards me personally. I am a geologist. Not a preacher or religious pundit. Paleontology is a science, not a belief. It disappointed me that a Fossil Forum had a political agenda, against fossils and evolution.

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tmaier

I sympathize with your situation, Ray. I don't see how the two subject can be disassociated.

BUT... I can tell you that if the forum started to attract the anti-evolution fanatics, I would leave, and I think most of the good people would go into hiding. I've seen it happen on the old usenet groups; it becomes a vigorous debate that devolves into name calling and insults and the only people who continue to contribute are the the least knowledgeable and people you least want to hear from.

There's no safe place on the web for academic discussion on the subject.

It is nicely quiet and productive on this site, just for the fossils. It also encourages people to learn more and get off the couch and enjoy nature. I just take it as that.. a good thing that is necessarily limited in scope. I used to have the largest fossil education site on the web, and it included some mention of evolution. I had to remove my email address and leave it as a "view-only" site because I was bombarded by hostile lunatics. I wouldn't want that to happen to this site. It is quite lovely here... peaceful... friendly... censored... :D

Edited by tmaier

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Auspex

I had been "politely" asked not to participate on the Fossil Forum by bringing up Evolution, creating a sequence of fossils found in sedimentary rocks, and I was also expressing myself too... whatever. I told the Administrators of the forum that I would voluntarily remove myself and no longer participate. They may want to post their Private Messages sent to me.

Since when is a Fossil Forum anti Evolution? Some people complained bringing up the subject was not appropriate. Then... it spiraled into a personal vendetta by three or four Administrators "voting" me off the Forum.

I said it was their Forum, and they can make their own rules. I will not change my position on Evolution... even if some forum members believe it violates their religious beliefs. So, until I received a notice from danwoehr wondering why I have no longer added any input, you now know the rest of the story.

I took their complaints towards me personally. I am a geologist. Not a preacher or religious pundit. Paleontology is a science, not a belief. It disappointed me that a Fossil Forum had a political agenda, against fossils and evolution.

You were asked, politely and repeatedly, not to intentionally stir up gratuitous controversy. The topics in question were removed, and will remain so, so I cannot and will not cite examples. That you withdrew from the Forum was your choice, so do not make it sound else wise.

This response of yours is another example of your trollish penchant to stir the pot and foster drama. We get our excitement here by sharing a fascination with fossils; politics have no role nor place on these boards.

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Fossildude19

I don't think "Censored" is the word I would use.

Appropriately moderated is what I would say.

We need to be tolerant of people's views, to prevent/avoid all of the mud slinging, and try not to foist our views upon others.

What does it matter if someone believes their Devonian aged fossil is only 6000 years old? I try not to let the views of others influence my views.

Not my purview to correct or inform in that manner.

The ignore button is one of my favorite tools here. If someone writes something that I disagree with, or continuously posts pseudo fossils rather than real fossils, ... I just ignore that user, and I don't have to see their posts.

I am here to share my fossil finds, and enjoy other's finds as well, ... not to lecture, or invoke my beliefs on others. I can share and enjoy without crossing into the evolution debate, and opening that can of worms..

And if I find my experience becoming less enjoyable due to content, (or lack, thereof) I can choose to ignore it.

Keep calm, and post cool fossil photos. post-2806-0-46588300-1412011788.png post-2806-0-07904300-1412011810.png

Regards,

EDIT: To add link - Moderation vs Censorship.

I guess I just don't like the negative connotation of Censorship. :P:blush::rolleyes:

Edited by Fossildude19

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tmaier

"Moderated" implies "censored", and I like it this way, even if it does restrict the conversation. I've just seen too much damage when things are allowed to go too far.

talk.origins and other old usenet feeds still allow that stuff.

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JohnJ

I had been "politely" asked not to participate on the Fossil Forum by bringing up Evolution, creating a sequence of fossils found in sedimentary rocks, and I was also expressing myself too... whatever. I told the Administrators of the forum that I would voluntarily remove myself and no longer participate. They may want to post their Private Messages sent to me.

Since when is a Fossil Forum anti Evolution? Some people complained bringing up the subject was not appropriate. Then... it spiraled into a personal vendetta by three or four Administrators "voting" me off the Forum.

I said it was their Forum, and they can make their own rules. I will not change my position on Evolution... even if some forum members believe it violates their religious beliefs. So, until I received a notice from danwoehr wondering why I have no longer added any input, you now know the rest of the story.

I took their complaints towards me personally. I am a geologist. Not a preacher or religious pundit. Paleontology is a science, not a belief. It disappointed me that a Fossil Forum had a political agenda, against fossils and evolution.

The 'strawmen' you set up and knocked down with your mischaracterization of events and inaccurate remarks were not necessary.

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jpc

Haven't seen much input from Ray lately...hope he resurrects himself here. I enjoyed his perspective.

I agree with dan... And hey I think this is an excellent venue for discussing evolution in all it's grandeur... After all, we are fascinated by some of the most powerful evidence for evolution.

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RichW9090

Is Ray actually claiming that posts espousing evolution were discouraged from this Forum? I find that hard to believe. Every post I make is rooted in evolution, even if it isn't explicit.

Am I missing something here?

Rich

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tmaier

I had some friends who were creationists, and I had to hide my fossils when they came visiting. They found them very disturbing. :D

Down here in the southeast of the US the vast majority are religious conservatives, so evolution is a forbidden topic.

Sometimes it is better to go with the flow and have some peace, as long as nobody is getting hurt.

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Auspex

I agree with dan... And hey I think this is an excellent venue for discussing evolution in all it's grandeur... After all, we are fascinated by some of the most powerful evidence for evolution.

As long as it is done without belittling someone else for their beliefs.

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tmaier

As I mentioned, people who enjoy the mud slinging can still find talk.origins for intense debate, if that is what turns them on.

http://www.google.com/search?q=talk.origins&btnG=Search&hl=en&gbv=1

I find it insulting and pointless.

talk.origins started because these debates where happening in the sci newsgroups and it was like a roving band of ill behaved barbarians who would crash our sci.paleontology and sci.physics and sci.biology and sci.chemistry threads and ruin them. So, this talk.origins site was created as a playground to get them out and allow them their own place. But... they would still often cross link into our groups and come crashing through the threads like a drunken party. They really trashed sci.paleontology and scared the good people away. :(

Edited by tmaier

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Uncle Siphuncle

my view on the origin of fossils is a hybridization along the lines of "divine evolution". i'm a christian guy who examines physical evidence of fossils in a hands on fashion. i don't get hung up on young earth theory. i don't see evidence of fossils as a test of faith. no one will shake my beliefs, nor do i seek to change theirs. the forum is cool because i don't see much excoriation from either camp. in the meantime, i think we can all agree that fossils sure look cool in my house!

i stand by my previous comments. i've enjoyed ray's perspective and input in what i've read, and hope he feels comfortable contributing going forward.

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