Western Usa: Camping, Exploring And How To Proceed Smartly

[Ray Eklund]

www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/co/programs/minerals.Par.44677.File.dat/Rockhounding%20Brochure.pdf

Get the Rockhounding & Fossil Collecting BLM State brochure(s). Each area in a State can vary somewhat, so check in with each local or regional office. They KNOW what is going on for decades, so just ask... do not play stupid.

For other State BLM Offices... inquire. Even the small local offices will provide you with information when you stop at the offices.

There are also National Forest Service (NFS), National Grasslands, Bureau of Land Management (BLM), National Park Service, State Parks and Recreation.... and others.

This example is for the Colorado BLM.

Best local information: Local Rock Shop(s). They know everything that is going on in the area. They also sell books, booklets and maps at some larger shops. The "tourist shops" sell mostly Brazilian amethyst geodes and Morocco fossils... just kidding... but you know what I am saying. Nothing seems to be local at these shops and I haven't time to look at the same stuff you can buy in Tucson at the February shows.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Ray Eklund

[Ray Eklund]

MAPS

AFTER contacting and checking out the information provided by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) purchase a map of the State you have an interest at a Book Shop, WalMart or Camping World.

DeLorme Atlas and Gazetteer (State which you are interested) Purchase ALL of the adjoining States, if you are traveling in a larger area. Rock exposures DO cross State Lines.

Back Roads, Public Lands, Private Property, GPS Grids, Outdoor Recreation, National Forests, BLM, National Grasslands, Parks, Biking, Fishing, Campgrounds... 1 inch is 2.5 miles scale of maps

ADVICE: When you find an area you want to visit for any recreational activity... stop at the local BLM Office and purchase one of their smaller scale maps which are outstanding. They show which are public lands and which are private land. You can also inquire with the BLM as to what is permitted AND ask where to find petrified wood and agate! They are very helpful. You can also get some of the best Rocky Mountain well water at the National Forest Service offices in the Western USA.

Some offices staff a geologist or archeologist. They know EVERYTHING and have an answer for you.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Ray Eklund

[Ray Eklund]

Permits to enter Public Lands?

You do not need a permit to camp, hike or travel through Public Lands. You do for National Parks, State Parks and possibly selected archaeological or paleontological areas that are set aside for protection. If you are not a US Citizen... you are also permitted to enter ALL public lands at will. The "Welcome Sign" is out for all adventurous individuals. There are 245 million acres in the western USA that are controlled by the BLM.

National Forest offices also offer information and maps to navigate the National Forest region of choice.

National Grassland offices also provide information and maps for sale.

Camp Grounds may have water, picnic tables and modern dry camp restrooms. Some may be more primitive. There is a very low and reasonable daily cost to camp. It is mostly self service and under the honor system. Many campgrounds are along clear flowing rivers and creeks in the mountains.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Ray Eklund

[Ray Eklund]

Private Property is PRIVATE PROPERTY.

It is no different trespassing on a 25,000 acre ranch or someone's yard next door to you.

BUT... if you find an area you would like to walk over and explore... go to the COUNTY LAND RECORDER'S OFFICE. Many Counties will print out a County property owners map for you. I have done this in Wyoming and then know WHO TO ASK FOR PERMISSION. Explain to the Land Owner or the Land Manager who resides at the Ranch what you want to do and if they would give you permission to enter their property. ASK clearly about where their property ends and another Ranch begins. If the Property Owners says NO, thank them and wish them a good day.

You might also get their name and address to write to them for a possible visit in the future. These western land owners do not owe you anything. Be polite and courteous.

First Visits: It is always a big plus if the husband and wife go to the Ranch House together to ask. Families are well accepted than a group of guys wanting to "dune buggy" the back roads. The Rancher is apprehensive that you might get hurt by falling off an outcrop, a bull decides you are not welcomed, or the cattle use your vehicle to scratch themselves. Make it known you will sign any waiver from injury or property damage... no argument. There could be rattle snakes where you least expect them. The two rut road might have been undercut and when you drive over it, the road collapses and you have to dig or have yourself towed out of it.

Again. Be respectful. The Rancher might seem a bit rough on the edges, but their heart is in the right place. If you are arrogant and disrespectful... I don't even want to talk to you. If you or your wife is the better conversationalist... let HER do the talking and you do the listening and step in when necessary.

As an added piece of information. If a Ranch does not want outsiders wandering about... offer to do some labor to gain access. Do you have a trade like plumbing, brick laying, mechanic? I have even offered to check the barbed wire fencing and pick up trash along the county road going through... Be smart and helpful. Been doing this longer than most Fossil Forum posters are old... It might seem old fashioned... but life is simpler out in the the Rockies.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Ray Eklund

[Ray Eklund]

IF you have a question about any of my previous statements... please post the question on the Forum.

IF you are uncertain about what you can and cannot do on public land... check the DeLorme Atlas if it is BLM, National Forest, National Grasslands or State Land. Then contact THAT particular regional office. All addresses and telephone numbers are posted by search www.google.com. Often the information is also available in that State's DeLorme Atlas and Gazetteer.

Many geological sites have guided tours for a minimal cost to you and family. They are excellent choices to understand the geology, mineralogy and paleontology of the area. These places are also found in the DeLorme Atlas of the State you are visiting.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Ray Eklund

[Ray Eklund]

My first experience to collecting fossils was being a guest by graduates of the University of Nebraska. I was 15 years old and naive as one could be. I wore a "pith helmet" purchased a Rattlesnake Bite Medical Kit and looked like a WW1 war mercenary. But... I watched and learned how to be considerate and respectful of Private Property and Ranchers.

I was able to collect Badland Fossils in Nebraska and Wyoming, just by asking and explaining WHY I was interested in THEIR RANCH and what I was looking for. An owner of a 25,000 or a 100,000 acre ranch knows every square foot of the property and you are not the first person to come-a-knocking. You want to play stupid and act stupid... become an actor at a Circus. (Today the majority, if not all, are now private land lease agreements and no longer open to collecting... but do check... leases expire as I found out.)

Possible Protocol ANY WHERE at ANY TIME:

(1) Sir, my name is ##### and we are from #####. This is my wife, #####. I am a plumber and my wife teaches High School in #####.

(2) I have read about the geology/paleontology on your Ranch and find the outcrops to the #### as having Cretaceous ammonites and baculites. We would be very grateful if you would allow us to hunt for some specimens.

(3) We will sign a waiver for any injury or personal property damages. We will travel ONLY on established roads and will park off to the side of the road and leave the gates open or closed as we find them.

(4) Are there areas where you do not want us to go? I am just interested in those outcrops and would like to collect fossils (or whatever) in that general area.

(5) Here is my name, address and telephone number for your reference.

(6) When we leave, we will stop at the Ranch House and let you know we are leaving. (If no one is home, leave a message tucked into the door that they seem to use most often. Many times it is NOT the front door!)

(7) Have their address and send to them a THANK YOU CARD and tell them what you found and how thrilled the family was to be able to visit their ranch.

GET IT? If you think you own the place and are disrespectful... the word gets out in less than five minutes AFTER you drive off. Every Ranch in the area will know your name, what you are doing and if it was a positive or negative experience. You may be the boss where you come from... but at a Ranch you might be no better than a pest.

IF, you are given permission and find that you want to visit on your next trip out west. Send a letter and follow up with a telephone call several weeks later.

***********

I know of one fantastic Oligocene, White River Formation area that produces Saber Tooth Cats, Camels, Horse, Eggs, Pond Turtles and large Rhinos. I knew the Rancher's Uncle. I knew his name and the name of the Ranch. He flew an airplane to look over his ranch. The last time we spoke he was driving a beat up early 1980's Toyota pickup. He was sorry, but would not let me collect on the Ranch. I did not ask WHY. I did send to him a letter the following Spring for permission without a response. It would have been a wonderful opportunity... but NOT my destiny.

I was given permission to fill my water containers with ice cold ground water out of the Mississippian Limestone at great depth below the ranch from their well.

My last visit I found one of the female ranch hands with her arm up to her neck in the cow's ######... with Bull ######. So, sometimes you have to be patient, before asking for permission or directions.

The last time I checked on the Ranch in 2012... it was for sale for $15,000,000.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Ray Eklund

[mikeymig]

You are a wealth of information my friend!

Thank you,

Mikey

[Ray Eklund]

If you enjoy camping and like standing out in no where... PM me some day. You never know where or what we will be up to!

Is your photograph Nebraska or South Dakota?

[mikeymig]

I love the west and have been out there 14 times. This past summer I took my girlfriend and my daughter out there for their first time. We camped in the Black Hills and the photo is from the Badlands National Park. I used to camp and collect on the Shalimer ranch but we have talked about how that's no longer an option. I usually collect the badlands of Wyoming with Kent Sundell but he wasnt able to take us out this time.

Mikey

Edited February 3, 2014 by mikeymig

[TeamBCX]

Thanks Ray that is some great info! Hopefully I can put it use out West sooner than later, it's been to long.

[FossilDAWG]

...

The last time I checked on the Ranch in 2012... it was for sale for $15,000,000.

So, if we could only find 150,000 FF members to chip in $100 each, we'd be golden!

Don

[Auspex]

So, if we could only find 150,000 FF members to chip in $100 each, we'd be golden!

Don

That's not an attractive time-share; 150 thousand fossil hounds would vacuum it in a day!

[jpc]

Ray makes many excellent points here. Here are a few I would like to add.

Remember that it is illegal to collect vertebrate fossils on BLM land... and on Forest Service land... and all fossils in a National Park. Having said this, most of the land in and around Badlands NP is off limits.

And also if you do go fossiling on BLM land, there are many bits of BLM land that are completely surrounded by private landowners. These are called inholdings, and you MUST get the private follks' permission (at least in Wyoming) to cross their land to get to that BLM land. Now if a public road goes through that BLM land, you may access it legally off that road, but it is always nice to stop in at the rancher's place and introduce yourself and tell them what you want to do. Legally they cannot stop you, but they might say "I'd rather you didn't", and then if you do, your name (or your car) just became Mud in the whole neighborhood. I know of at least one famous dinosaur paleontologist from a famous University in Chicago who is not at all welcome in eastern Wyoming because he did not stop in at the rancher's house to say "I have a BLM permit and want to access that bit of BLM landover there that has dinosaurs" before he and his 20 students traipsed across their private land on their way to the BLM land. As Ray mentioned... these guys owe us nothing.

On the other hand, I feel that the fact that I have Wyoming license plates makes me much more welcome on Wyoming ranches. A rancher told me a funny story last year about a fellow from Denver who had been collecting on his land (White River Fm). He wanted to go collect on the neighbor's place, so he drove over and introduced himself. The two struck up a conversation and found that they had played football against each other in college (or something like that). They chatted for 45 minutes before the Old Coloradan asked if he could go fossiling on his place. The old Rancher looked down at his CO plates and said "I don't think so"

I don't say that to discourage anyone, but it is a good story.

I actually often write letters to landowners beforehand explaining everything I want to do and that I expect to find and then threaten (um... promise ) to call them soon. If I can find the phone number.

My two cents... thanks for listening.

Edited February 9, 2014 by jpc

[ZiggieCie]

Great info for those of us that don't know the West. A big Thank you

I hate having to re-invent the wheel.

[Ray Eklund]

jpc... you were shooting straight and accurate. You and I know the "ways of the West" and many from outside the rural community do not understand.

Wyoming is very interesting as to... license plates. Colorado plates are associated with a more California lifestyle, which is only true in some Front Range communities, ski resort towns, Aspen's of Colorado. The rest of the state is rural and seasonal tourist towns. But, there is a stigma of plate "information".

A Wyoming local plate of 17-10986 has lower prestige than 17-65. The higher the number... the newer to the county you are. Some plates are kept in the family for generations! Wyoming use to make a new plate with a different color, each year. Garages would have them hammered onto the walls as a badge of honor. I have to admit... I loved my cowboy riding a horse standing on its hind legs! Then... the animal protectionists said the plate and the rodeo's hurt animals... So you cannot win.

Colorado plates are referred to as "greenies". Partly for the Green Mountains with Snow accenting the high points. But... a small minority of individuals wanting to ban oil drilling, fracking of wells for production, coal electric power plants, agricultural water rights for the cities and not for the rural rancher or farmers seem to be in all local newspapers of Wyoming. It is the same in Colorado... East Front Range versus the 80% of the rest of the State. When you drive up with a South Dakota plate... neutral. Kansas... neutral. An East Coast plate on your vehicle... negative. You might be a farmer from Illinois, but a Rancher thinks...Chicago. YOU must show that you are like the people you are now being looked over, very closely for your political views and other "touchy" issues. Maybe it does not seem fair... but that is just the way it is out West.

I wanted to add this also. It is no different in KANSAS where license plates have the abbreviated county... WY for Kansas City, Kansas and in Cretaceous Niobrara country... GO... for Gove County. Whenever you have a county number or identification... many assumptions are made... "on the spot". Even within their own state. Nebraska Dawes County 69 and Sioux County 71 can recognize a Lincoln or Omaha, Nebraska plate with a 1 or a 2 prefix.

California... I do not want to explain how they can be stereo typed, even though there are just as many farmers and ranchers living in the rural areas of the eastern side of the state than the entire central Rockies... combined.

When I lived in Wyoming, I started out with a County 2 license plate. This is for Laramie County which Cheyenne is the major city. JUST having the 2-4837 Wyoming plate would be a negative. Having an Albany County plate 5-4837 would open a ranch in Dinosaur country more. A County 6-4837 for Carbon County and big fossil country... was a "unspoken" ticket for possible entry. JPC no doubt has a County 1 plate... a whole different message to Wyoming residents. With 23 counties.... EACH has a plus, neutral or negative stigma to go with it. The higher the license plate county number... the fewer residents. You drive up... the first... FIRST thing the rancher does is look at the license plate. Even myself, with years living in Wyoming and having a Colorado license plate need to impress on the Rancher that I am like them. Which I am, but the Colorado plate is an advertising billboard for all to see.

Drive your Wyoming plate into western Nebraska... neutral no matter the county number. Into Montana... neutral. Into Missouri... you were a novelty and everyone wanted to talk about... Yellowstone, Jackson and the Teton National Park... which to someone in Wyoming was like saying you liked the wind and snow in February.

When a billionaire Texan puts hundreds of wind power units across the open country... it makes Texas plates a negative. These residents read, discuss and follow through on saving their ways of living.

So when traveling and looking for private property in Wyoming to camp or hunt fossils, minerals or sight see... you begin with a stigma and you must show the Rancher that you respect their property rights and are at their mercy.

I would add Montana, New Mexico and western Nebraska as other "out of state" sensitive regions. This attitude is mostly towards the Federal Government that seems to have a bias of restricting mining, oil, grazing and other land uses that are not private property, but Federal lands. I do not expect this to change this year or next year... but it has been slowly been more accepting by the locals who do appreciate the out of town business.

Final addition:

Imagine you are a Rancher, his wife or older children at a remote location at home. A pickup or SUV is coming down the dirt road from a distance, and the plume of dust is actually a "door bell" to a Ranch of a vehicle approaching. The vehicle pulls up with an Out of State license plate. Four guys get out of the vehicle and are approaching the front door unannounced... One situation that can create some apprehension.

Imagine the same situation and a man and wife get out of the vehicle and approach the door. This creates a different atmosphere.

Imagine you are at home and four guys are at the door knocking and one is looking into your windows to see if anyone is home. They are insurance agents lost and needing directions. But... you do not know that.

If you have ever had a reason to be uneasy with a situation, it makes a conversation between unknown people difficult. When a Rancher finds your vehicle parked on HIS ranch and you are climbing around on an outcrop picking up fossils... is THIS the time to ASK?

These examples may seem a waste of time and effort, but are important in "negotiating" possibilities. The understanding the other person's motivation is why I had been welcomed to many ranches in my eager fossil hunting days. I even offered to help with chores as an entry to camp and hunt fossils. The tension is then gone and everyone is comfortable. Be honest. If you are denied one trip, stop by and ask again. It works and the majority of Ranchers who have fossil formations on their property do not even collect. They are too busy. If they do collect, especially in the Nebraska panhandle... "... find any arrowheads, I would like to have those" is the only request I have had to limit my hunts. Found none... but maybe next time.

Drive up with Hawaii license plates... you may already be encouraged to marry one of their adult children!

Edited February 12, 2014 by Ray Eklund

[mikeymig]

Try collecting out there with New York plates. It's hard to explain that I'm not from the city in fact, I have never been to NYC. I do get a lot of looks and when I talk to people out there I get the feeling from most that they respect the fact that I traveled so far to visit the area. I made friends with a family this summer at a campground in the Black Hills. I kept an eye on their campsite so they could do something at their house in Rapid City. When they got back I said hey and we (my girlfriend, daughter, and I) went hiking. When we came back we had 2 nice trout waiting for us in our cooler.

Mikey

[Ray Eklund]

Mikey... were the fillets already missing?

If they were, I found them first. The beer was good too!

[mikeymig]

Mikey... were the fillets already missing?

If they were, I found them first. The beer was good too!