Ray Eklund Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) I frequently come across a nice specimen that has no label. It becomes an unknown and has minimal value because, the geologist, in this case did not insert a label into the container as to location and formation (Period, Formation, etc.) I scanned both sides. It measures 3 inches by 1 1/2 inches. This is an interesting specimen as it is loose of matrix, obviously weathered out in this condition and is a flattened nearly complete calyx with arms Wouldn't we all like to know where this one came from! My offer is this. The first Forum member who can identify this as to just... Genus... will be the owner. I will pay the shipping within the USA. If you are in Canada or outside of North America you could Pay Pal me the shipping costs, which would be fairly low. Rules: If you come up with an initial identification you must provide the REASONS and a scan of the Crinoid used to identify this specimen. If there is a dispute among several members as to the identification, other Forum members can jump in and support the closest correct identification. If there seems to be conclusive agreement... then I will check my Treatise of Invertebrate Paleontology- Echinodermata... locate those identifications and make a knee jerk selection of a winner, if necessary. First most accurate identification takes the prize. I have no clue nor have I tried to find an identification. I would have to believe it is Silurian, Ordovician or Devonian. It is not a Cretaceous floater from the Kansas chalk. Edited February 13, 2014 by Ray Eklund 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 My guess is Linocrinus sp, Devonian. used index fossils of NA for id, plate 64 # 24? page 170. 1 "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolmt Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I think Herb might have it, looks like a very good match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PA Fossil Finder Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Cool, crinoids are great. Sadly all I have are the stem segments. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Eklund Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Herb makes use of the one book that is worth owning... Index Fossils of North America by Shimer and Shrock. Specimen #24 on plate 64, page 170 and (#5b on plate 59, page 160) I have scanned for everyone to see Herb's quick use of this reference! Mississippian Period... Iowa, Indiana and Alabama are three sources. Second scan if from the Treatise of Invertebrate Paleontology edited by R. C. Moore & C. Teichert, (T) Echinodermata 2 (2) page T750, figure 496, #2abc. Upper Mississippian Indiana, Iowa, Illinois, Alabama, Oklahoma, Georgia, Missouri, Montana, Alberta- Canada... Anyone else have something better than Linocrinus sp.? I will give it until Monday 5PM and alert Herb takes the prize... unless... added: For checking Herb's ID.... This is an extremely rare crinoid. This is a specimen of Linocrinus compactus. This crinoid is from the Gilmore City Formation of Iowa. There have, probably, been fewer than six specimens of this crinoid ever found from the Gilmore City Formation. This crinoid is not even in the book that describes the fauna from this site. The nodose plates of the crinoid are well defined. The branching pattern of the arms is nicely displayed. The crinoid crown has a piece of the stem still atached. The fossil has great, off-white, color that contrasts wonderfully with the gray matrix. This is a fine example of a super-rare Linocrinus compactus from the Gilmore City Formation. Edited February 14, 2014 by Ray Eklund Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Oh Boy, Oh Boy "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Eklund Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Herb... can you explain to any late comers how you were able to narrow it down so quickly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolmt Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I used the same book and had it narrowed down to a few but Herb jumped in first..... Great book along with the volumes of The Treatise my go to volumes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggieCie Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I frequently come across a nice specimen that has no label. It becomes an unknown and has minimal value because, the geologist, in this case did not insert a label into the container as to location and formation (Period, Formation, etc.) I scanned both sides. It measures 3 inches by 1 1/2 inches. This is an interesting specimen as it is loose of matrix, obviously weathered out in this condition and is a flattened nearly complete calyx with arms Wouldn't we all like to know where this one came from! My offer is this. The first Forum member who can identify this as to just... Genus... will be the owner. I will pay the shipping within the USA. If you are in Canada or outside of North America you could Pay Pal me the shipping costs, which would be fairly low. Rules: If you come up with an initial identification you must provide the REASONS and a scan of the Crinoid used to identify this specimen. If there is a dispute among several members as to the identification, other Forum members can jump in and support the closest correct identification. If there seems to be conclusive agreement... then I will check my Treatise of Invertebrate Paleontology- Echinodermata... locate those identifications and make a knee jerk selection of a winner, if necessary. First most accurate identification takes the prize. I have no clue nor have I tried to find an identification. I would have to believe it is Silurian, Ordovician or Devonian. It is not a Cretaceous floater from the Kansas chalk. Ray, would you have any better photos available? I am thinking it may possibly be a Dizygocrinus sp. but the photo is to out of focus to tell for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Eklund Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Ziggie, I have this new Canon that takes Macro and am still trying to figure out where in the software the MACRO setting can be set up. The instructions are written for photographers who have already had an earlier version and understand the massive amount of options! This is scanned on my printer, so was the best I could do. Maybe, it makes it a bit more of a mystery as well. I will pull some references and check Dizygocrinus sp. And will scan some illustration if there are any. Do you have an illustration to offer? This nice specimen is an example of why ALL finds should have at least a location and Geological Period, at least. It is too bad that this had no label. I would have liked to check this area out myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Eklund Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Dizygocrinus sp. I do not see any calyx parts that look like this specimen I have. The Index Fossils of North America examples really show the differences than the Linocrinus sp. I made a scan of a complete calyx and arms specimen. Treatise of Invertebrate Paleontology (T) Echinodermata 2 (2), page T468, Figure 275-7a. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggieCie Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Thx, Ray for the comeback. Good luck with your new canon; is it the smaller point and shoot type or the real camera? I have the Olympus Stylus 7040 and it (easily) takes very good photos in the Macro mode. As for the Crinoids; the reference I found is in the Google books, Memoirs, Volumes 20-21. Which is in reality: {{ Memoirs of the Museum of Comparative Zoology, at Harvard College. Eighty-Three plates to accompany Vols.XX, and XXI The North American Crinoidea Camerata. By Charles Wachsmuth and Frank Springer. }} On-line the plate showing the Dizygocrinus sp. is XXXV. In the downloadable PDF file it is pgs. 147-148 also plate XXXV Link: http://books.google.com/books?id=Lo4jAQAAMAAJ&pg=PT208&lpg=PT208&dq=Periechocrinus%C2%A0whitfieldi&source=bl&ots=C9NbMFkIHn&sig=-bM68_8RrGl3hg5Vj8vGrjr0KEM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=P3ToUu_HEajgyQHRxIHgDw&ved=0CDwQ6AEwBQ#v=twopage&q=Periechocrinus%C2%A0whitfieldi&f=false Upon closer comparison from the PDF file I can see that yours is not the, Dizygocrinus, so I withdraw my choice. But this is still an interesting reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Herb... can you explain to any late comers how you were able to narrow it down so quickly? Ray, you said it was either Ordovician, Silurian or Devonian, so I started from there working backward from the Devonian because it looked more complex than most O,S types. It helped that I had the Index sitting next to me at the time I read our post. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Eklund Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 I never thought it would have been later than the Devonian! The Pennsylvanian, Lane Shale crinoids were the only ones I would find complete like this, but not as calcified into one solid specimen. But... I did say it was not from the Cretaceous! I do not see much activity on this and I believe your ID is correct. Would you PM your address to me and I will get this into the mail Tuesday. Unless... someone at the last minute has cut you out at the finishing line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Eklund Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 Shipped to Herb. February 21, 2014 Thank you to anyone who was interested in participating, but were beaten to the identification! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggieCie Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Thank you for a good learning experience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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