Hunt4teeth Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Hello, I was sorting through some gravel John (Sacha) so kindly sent to me, which I wanted to share some teeth I found and possibly get some IDs/confirmation on them. Thank you in advance for taking the time to look at and respond. My apologies if these are not the sharpest pictures, these micros can be difficult to photograph without a digital microscope with a good image capture. The first tooth I think maybe a basking shark tooth, based on photos I seen on the internet of basking shark teeth from Sharktooth Hill. However, the photos seem to vary by formation (species?). The second tooth looks like some sort of fish tooth, however I have no clue from what genus/species. It has the most amazing colors I have seen on such a tiny tooth. Any information would be helpful. I have included a side and bottom view of the tooth. The last tooth has the unmistaken look of a Hemipristis Serra, but I have never seen one so small (approx. the size of FDR's ear on a U.S. dime). I have included a photo of some of my little Lee Creek (Aurora, NC.) Hemipristis (Serra and Elongatus) next to the Rattlesnake creek tooth for relative size difference. If this is a Hemi, like it appears to be, is it from an unborn shark? Thanks again for taken the time to read through my post and examine the pictures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Wow, I thought I looked for small teeth. 1) Lots of other specimens look similar to basking shark teeth. There are a lot of nondescript symphyseal and parasymphyseal teeth that can look similar. Broken cusplets can look similar. Damaged teeth can look similar. You would need to post more pictures but I don't see a cutting edge and the general crown/root morphology doesn't look quite right. 2) Looks like a fish tooth. There just aren't the books describing individual fish teeth to family/genus/species level. So many out there. You need a real fish expert for help here. 3) Definitely looks like a Hemipristis. The smallest Hemipristis specimen that I have ever seen. Definitely a very young shark. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lissa318 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I have 2 Bausch and Lomb watchmakers loupes I take all my pictures through.... Not ideal but helps. They are fairly inexpensive and I take pics with my phone which rests right against the end of the loupe which prevents shaking hands! I use either the 5x or 10x depending on the fossil size. Thought this might help! Sorry I can't help with ID's. Love the color of your last tooth!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt4teeth Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 Thank you MarcoSr for your reply. It was your post and pics of Lee Creek micros that got me to really appreciate these tiny fossils. I had brought several buckets of reject material from the last Aurora Fossil Festival to look for the bigger shark teeth. After viewing several of your posts, I started rinsing the gravel through a colander strainer and started searching for all these amazing little fossils. I even bought a jeweler's magnifying visor to help see them. I have a digital microscope w/ a 5MP camera on the way, so I hope to take some better pics of the first tooth. I figured the fish tooth would be extremely difficult to ID, but I at least wanted to share as I really love the colors in this tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt4teeth Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 Thank you Lissa for your comment. If the digital microscope I ordered does not do the trick, I will give the B&L a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt4teeth Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 I just found another tooth I would like some help with IDing. My guess would be a symphyseal based on the thickness of the root (though broken) compared to the size of the crown. The second photo is the top of the broken root to show the thickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt4teeth Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 Looking back at MarcoSr Rattlesnake Creek thread, the last tooth appears to be a Nebrius. I found another one right after I posted the first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I just found another tooth I would like some help with IDing. My guess would be a symphyseal based on the thickness of the root (though broken) compared to the size of the crown. The second photo is the top of the broken root to show the thickness. 2014-02-15 05.34.16-2.jpg2014-02-15 05.28.05.jpg Looking back at MarcoSr Rattlesnake Creek thread, the last tooth appears to be a Nebrius. I found another one right after I posted the first one. Really nice specimen. My nurse shark teeth from Rattlesnake Creek all had badly damaged crowns and that is why I took my pictures of them showing mostly the roots instead of the crowns. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Thank you MarcoSr for your reply. It was your post and pics of Lee Creek micros that got me to really appreciate these tiny fossils. I had brought several buckets of reject material from the last Aurora Fossil Festival to look for the bigger shark teeth. After viewing several of your posts, I started rinsing the gravel through a colander strainer and started searching for all these amazing little fossils. I even bought a jeweler's magnifying visor to help see them. I have a digital microscope w/ a 5MP camera on the way, so I hope to take some better pics of the first tooth. I figured the fish tooth would be extremely difficult to ID, but I at least wanted to share as I really love the colors in this tooth. I'm glad my posts tweaked your interest in these micro fossils. That is why I post the micros. It sounds like you will have the tools to search for, examine and take pictures of these really tiny specimens. Definitely post some additional pictures of your first tooth if you can. The colors of some of the specimens from Rattlesnake Creek, like your fish tooth, are really awesome. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 WOW that is the smallest Hemi I've ever seen as well ! Really nice specimens and pics. Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Looking closer at your nurse shark tooth I think it is Ginglymostoma versus Nebrius. Ginglymostoma have a symmetrical crown on anterior teeth with a well-differentiated main cusp. Lateral teeth are asymmetrical. Nebrius have a distinctly asymmetrical crown and the main cusp is not notably enhanced. Also Nebrius have an extremely developed apron, which is wide, long and distinctly passes beyond the basal plane of the root in mesial view. Your tooth has a symmetrical crown with a well-differentiated main cusp. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 That is a small hemi. The smallest I have is 4mm on the slant. I put it on a dime in the same spot as in your pic and it appears to be twice the size of yours. Great find. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bones Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Really nice finds! That looks to be some very productive matrix. Love the tiny teeth:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt4teeth Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thanks everyone for your comments, and thank you Marco for the clarification on the nurse shark tooth. I tried to get some new pics of the first tooth, but having trouble getting a good picture. My digital microscope should be here soon (ordered overseas, so it is taking a while). Once I receive it, I can hopefully capture some better pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt4teeth Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Hey Marco, I finally got my digital microscope and took some new pics of the first tooth. These were the first pics I took with the new microscope, so there is a little blur to the outside (I think because of the background I used), but much better then the above picture. It looks like a different tooth under the scope. It appears to have very faint serrations along the edge and colors I can not see with the naked eye. Please let me know your thoughts, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Really nice pictures. The specimen has beautiful colors. If it has serrations it would not be a basking shark. Most likely then it would be a symphyseal or parasymphyseal of probably a Carcharhinus. But sometimes small nicks to the cutting edge of a tooth can look like serrations especially with a specimen this small. If it is a basking shark it does have some root erosion. It is the bulge in the root to the one side that makes me think it could be a cusplet of a bigger tooth also. However the root erosion could have caused this effect. For comparison I'm attaching pictures of a basking shark tooth from the Miocene of Maryland. I still need to think about this. Hopefully some others here on TFF will voice an opinion. You may need to get an opinion from a true expert on Cetorhinus like Dr. Bruce Welton. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt4teeth Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 Thank you Marco for taking another look at the tooth. I have trouble telling whether the cutting edge is serrated or just roughed up due to the condition of the tooth. From the side, it looks very similar to the tooth you posted. However, I see what you mean about the bulge in the root and it does seem odd. I may try and track down Dr. Welton and get his opinion, thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt4teeth Posted February 26, 2014 Author Share Posted February 26, 2014 Here is a better picture of the Hemi, if anyone is interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Thank you Marco for taking another look at the tooth. I have trouble telling whether the cutting edge is serrated or just roughed up due to the condition of the tooth. From the side, it looks very similar to the tooth you posted. However, I see what you mean about the bulge in the root and it does seem odd. I may try and track down Dr. Welton and get his opinion, thanks again! That side view does look very similar. That is why you need to take the different views of a specimen. Some views may look exactly like a species but another view may rule it out. I'll be sending you a PM shortly. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Here is a better picture of the Hemi, if anyone is interested. Hemi 2.jpg Nice picture. That is a really awesome specimen, super small in really great condition. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Here is a better picture of the Hemi, if anyone is interested. Hemi 2.jpg Beautiful tooth. In great condition. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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