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Can Anyone Here Tell Me How Scarce Something Is?


whowat13

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I have in my posession, two fossilized giant salamander vertibrae.

I found them in the Peace River, and was wondering about the scarcity of the material.

Any help would be appreciated.

I will post pictures of them if requested.

-Bill H.

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My sense is that such are not at all common from the Peace River (most giant salamander fossils are found in Eurasia).

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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OK...

I will have to post them tomorrow though, because I forgot my digital camera adaptor cable.

I am currently at the North American Paleontological Convention, and can't just run home (3 hrs away) to get it.

I will find one to buy tomorrow though.

-Bill H.

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Just got back from a little walk (found a store near my hotel that had what I needed)...

So... I will attach the photos to this comment. There are 4 different views of the two verts.

PRK - I just figured I would ask about scarcity on this forum tonight because I forgot to ask the person who told me what they were today...

post-5742-0-17584200-1392516317_thumb.jpg

post-5742-0-82303400-1392516318_thumb.jpg

post-5742-0-50866000-1392516344_thumb.jpg

post-5742-0-45886300-1392516345_thumb.jpg

Enjoy...

-Bill H.

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Sorry about the scale issue...

The larger one measures about 3/4 of an inch across, and the smaller one is about 5/8 of an inch across.

I tried taking the pictures on a lined sheet of paper, but the flash washed out the lines.

-Bill H.

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I did some very rough measurements of your larger vertebra. If it is .75 inches across at the widest then the main part (excluding processes) of the vertebra is around 9.4 millimeters long. That is similar to the length of a Siren lacertina (Greater siren) vertebra posted on the Florida Museum webpage (around 10 millimeters long). Greater sirens are found as fossil and modern components of Florida streams. I don't know how rare fossils ones are. There are fossil Hellbender vertebra found in Tennessee (Miocene) but they are a little longer.

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The processes on those seem very delicate. It's amazing they survived being tumbled around in gravel beds. Given the mix of ages found in the Peace River, do you have any idea how old these vertebrae are?

Don

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  • 2 weeks later...

Giant salamander you say? To my novice eye (and even more novice brain taking up residence just behind those novice eyes) I would have said snake vertebrae. I'm pretty sure snake verts have that ball-and-socket connection between them so that's what I would have called it had I pulled it from my sifting screen. Can somebody (with actual knowledge) let me know if other reptiles/amphibians have this type of vertebrae?

Cheers.

-Ken

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Giant salamander you say? To my novice eye (and even more novice brain taking up residence just behind those novice eyes) I would have said snake vertebrae. I'm pretty sure snake verts have that ball-and-socket connection between them so that's what I would have called it had I pulled it from my sifting screen. Can somebody (with actual knowledge) let me know if other reptiles/amphibians have this type of vertebrae?

Cheers.

-Ken

A few types of salamanders have ball and socket vertebrae (opisthocoelus) but most have concave surfaces on both sides (amphicoelus) like the ones in post #6.

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A few types of salamanders have ball and socket vertebrae (opisthocoelus) but most have concave surfaces on both sides (amphicoelus) like the ones in post #6.

Yes, the posted images of the vertebrae in question seem to be 'double socket' types.

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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Very interesting. Now I'll have to sort through my bowl of bits and check the vertebrae I've pulled from the Peace and check both sides to see if I've got any salamander as well. It would be cool if some of my snake verts 'morphed' into salamander upon closer inspection.

Thanks for the education (this Forum's primary mission).

-Ken

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I would say those are rare, but probably not unique. That's just based on a few years of seeing everyone's finds in Peace river trip reports and not seeing any others that I recall. Found this article that I thought was interesting too.

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