Is This Stuff Crinoid Segments?

[squali]

Just to clarify, a cretaceous tsunami would most likely

represent a very small section in a transgressive-regressive sequence

Possibly a couple of mm to a meter. There would be classic chunks of

other formations or sections inter beded in the sediments.

This is a general observation.

[ashcraft]

Just to clarify, a cretaceous tsunami would most likely

represent a very small section in a transgressive-regressive sequence

Possibly a couple of mm to a meter. There would be classic chunks of

other formations or sections inter beded in the sediments.

This is a general observation.

What Dr. Eiffert's paper suggests is that the entire sequence of the Clayton, which is above the Owl Creek, is tsunami deposit, albeit over many years. The lower part, which includes scowers into the Owl Creek, is from the inital impact, then everything above is settling. The Clayton is only a few feet thick, and based on what I have seen, makes sense. The bottom of the Clayton is fossil rich, even though it is a Paleocene deposit, the fossils are generally Cretaceous, notably Exogyra costata. The upper part is fossil free, as you would expect after a mass extinction event.

fkaa

[squali]

Thanks ashcraft

[Tennessees Pride]

Your formation sounds like the maritime version of our McNairy sandstone. Ours is a riverine deposit, but contains petrified wood, lignite, leaf impressions, and even the rare trackway. When the embayment moved into this area, our deposit becomes the owl creek. The owl creek ends when the impactor ended the cretaceous. There is evidence of tsunami wash. I encourage you to read Dr. Tambra Eifert's dissertation on the subject. You can download it at

seismo.device.mst.edu/GG/pubs/06.pdf

I am sending this from my tablet, so it may not link. You can also google "tambra eiffert tsunami" to find it.

fkaa

That paper is nothing short of a masterpiece. I had that pdf already downloaded but have had trouble finding it because i never changed the title. Reread the whole thing again last night, and truely, something about like that has happened here in just abit earlier of a time period, you may even find indications of this in your area.

[Tennessees Pride]

I was also going to comment on the petrified wood. I have collected a number of pieces from the McNairy, that looks very similar to yours. They are extremely brittle along the growth lines. Finding them scattered like that is not unusual.

fkaa

That wood, that wood!!!.....i actually know locations where different species of wood is that are mineralized with different minerals (evidently) and are all in the same layer! It has me just shaking my head! Black, gray, white, blue.......are you ready for this......even cores of petrified wood with real wood that never petrified encasing the petrified core! I know how crazy that sounds...i'll post a pic soon. The white color pet stuff is more of a cherty kind, the grey stuff too, but the black and also blue stuff is more like flint.

[Tennessees Pride]

This is a sample of Cretaceous petrified wood encased in a real wood!!! I know it's hard to tell it's petrified, so i put it on scales, pic #2 i have pulled some of the wood back to give an idea of texture. I have found more than this sample in the past....it's the real deal. Don't know if science is ready for that one or not...

Edited March 5, 2014 by Tennessees Pride

[ashcraft]

That wood, that wood!!!.....i actually know locations where different species of wood is that are mineralized with different minerals (evidently) and are all in the same layer! It has me just shaking my head! Black, gray, white, blue.......are you ready for this......even cores of petrified wood with real wood that never petrified encasing the petrified core! I know how crazy that sounds...i'll post a pic soon. The white color pet stuff is more of a cherty kind, the grey stuff too, but the black and also blue stuff is more like flint.

Look at the black and blue stuff carefully, Sardis is not far from here, and it could be reworked ordovician stromatolites, from the St. Peter. I find them in the McNairy, and they are more common then the petrified around here. The easiest way to tell them apart is by color. If you slice petrified wood from this area from that time period, you can see cell structure. I have one that is from the genus Quercus, and another that I can't identify, with several more to do. If they are stromatolites, there obviously won't be cell structure.

If you can get hold of Dr. Eifert's full dissertation, it is well worth the read.

fkaa

fkaa

[Tennessees Pride]

A selection of the different wood types and colors....in the same layer.

[ashcraft]

This is a sample of Cretaceous petrified wood encased in a real wood!!! I know it's hard to tell it's petrified, so i put it on scales, pic #2 i have pulled some of the wood back to give an idea of texture. I have found more than this sample in the past....it's the real deal. Don't know if science is ready for that one or not...

odd looking stuff. You are finding it insitu in a cretaceous deposit?

fkaa

[Tennessees Pride]

Grey stuff...

[Tennessees Pride]

odd looking stuff. You are finding it insitu in a cretaceous deposit?

fkaa

Yes sir.

[ashcraft]

A selection of the different wood types and colors....in the same layer.

definitely wood. Dark colors appear to be manganese staining, not part of original mineralization process. You can ceck by breaking one and see if it extends into the specimen.

fkaa

[Tennessees Pride]

Now i can understand different wood types in the same formation petrified....but different minerals in the petrified wood...and they're all in the same kind of sediment??? A dark body of argillceous sediments,silty type stuff w/ a grain like sandy texture, uniform, and with mica.

And if all the various wood color types were not enough......ya run up on petrified encased in wood...so fresh you could easily build a camp fire out of it!

[Tennessees Pride]

definitely wood. Dark colors appear to be manganese staining, not part of original mineralization process. You can ceck by breaking one and see if it extends into the specimen.

fkaa

Makes sense. I will try that.

[Tennessees Pride]

The woods are the same through & through.

[ashcraft]

Now i can understand different wood types in the same formation petrified....but different minerals in the petrified wood...and they're all in the same kind of sediment??? A dark body of argillceous sediments,silty type stuff w/ a grain like sandy texture, uniform, and with mica.

And if all the various wood color types were not enough......ya run up on petrified encased in wood...so fresh you could easily build a camp fire out of it!

Mica is a common component in both the McNairy and the Owl Creek, and younger deposits in this area. I suspect it is in the Coon Creek also, but haven't ever seen that deposit. The wood strands........unless it is sealed in extremely compact clay that excludes oxygen, I don't see how it could survive from the cretaceous, and even if it was sealed, it would become lignite. Are you sure the fibers are actually wood, and not mineralized in a form similar to asbestos? Try putting a match to them and see if they will hold a flame. If they are wood, I suspect you are looking at a deposit that has been re-worked with newer material mixed in.

Let me add though, that I am not an expert, but have collected wood from the Pleistocene buried in tight clay that looks like it was buried yesterday when it is first exposed. When it dries out, it turns into brittle sheets of paper that turn into dust without much help, and that is only 30,000 years old.

fkaa

[Scylla]

As far as different types of mineralization in the same layer, you can see different mineralization in the same log sometimes (not specifically talking about your site, just in general) The size of quartz microcrystals in the wood can be very sensitive to multiple local factors during mineralization. By way of analogy, you can find microcrystalline quartz, large crystals and even calcite or completely different minerals all in the same geode and not bat an eye. Another thing I see is that the way your petrified wood is fractured looks like broken petrified wood (obvious, right) but not like splintered wood that later became petrified. So I think it became mineralized before being shattered. Just my 2 cents.

[Tennessees Pride]

Okay, that made me curious...i went and burn some of the wood....it wouldn't flame up, but burned hort in a ember...and wouldnt go out!...i finally had to pour water on it!

As i have said,i have found this stuff before, so i used some dry wood. This is what that stuff looks like when it completely drys and peels back off the petrified wood. Now, it's brittle, but still good and firm...dense rather. There is no mistakng it's Cretaceous age either sir.

[Tennessees Pride]

As far as different types of mineralization in the same layer, you can see different mineralization in the same log sometimes (not specifically talking about your site, just in general) The size of quartz microcrystals in the wood can be very sensitive to multiple local factors during mineralization. By way of analogy, you can find microcrystalline quartz, large crystals and even calcite or completely different minerals all in the same geode and not bat an eye. Another thing I see is that the way your petrified wood is fractured looks like broken petrified wood (obvious, right) but not like splintered wood that later became petrified. So I think it became mineralized before being shattered. Just my 2 cents.

That about the shattered/splintered differences has peaked my curiousity...can't believe i haven't even thought about it yet...

[Plax]

Mica is a common component in both the McNairy and the Owl Creek, and younger deposits in this area. I suspect it is in the Coon Creek also, but haven't ever seen that deposit. The wood strands........unless it is sealed in extremely compact clay that excludes oxygen, I don't see how it could survive from the cretaceous, and even if it was sealed, it would become lignite. Are you sure the fibers are actually wood, and not mineralized in a form similar to asbestos? Try putting a match to them and see if they will hold a flame. If they are wood, I suspect you are looking at a deposit that has been re-worked with newer material mixed in.

Let me add though, that I am not an expert, but have collected wood from the Pleistocene buried in tight clay that looks like it was buried yesterday when it is first exposed. When it dries out, it turns into brittle sheets of paper that turn into dust without much help, and that is only 30,000 years old.

fkaa

We got a bunch of dredged petrified wood from the cape fear river near Fayetteville that had sections of regular grey colored wood in cavities of the silicified wood. It was left outside at Tote Em In Zoo in Carolina Beach and termites actually ate it. This was from the Santonian? Cape Fear formation if my memory serves me well. I would have expected lignite instead of wood and lignified as well as silicified log jams occur in both the Cape Fear and Tarheel formations. I must confess that before seeing it myself I would have thought someone was pulling my leg if they said that unaltered wood occurred intimately with silicified wood!

Edited March 5, 2014 by Plax

[Herb]

Ashcraft,

the Coon Creek member is a greenish gray micaceous, glauconitic, fine grained sand. I can send you a box, if you want some PM me.

[ashcraft]

I did a quick google search and did find evidence of a 50 million year old piece of redwood, complete with amber, found in a diamond mine. It had been buried by volcanic ash and completely sealed from its outer environment. I also know that the dino bones found around here are mostly actual bone, having been sealed in a dense clay environment until they were dug up, so it is possible. I would love to hear an explanation of how preservation of actual cellulose could occur for that long a period in a strata that is relatively porous.

fkaa

[Xiphactinus]

ashcraft -

one correction...the dino bones from Chronister aren't bone any more. They are totally mineralized, but are very light and extremely well preserved.

This preserved wood is interesting!

[Tennessees Pride]

I did a quick google search and did find evidence of a 50 million year old piece of redwood, complete with amber, found in a diamond mine. It had been buried by volcanic ash and completely sealed from its outer environment. I also know that the dino bones found around here are mostly actual bone, having been sealed in a dense clay environment until they were dug up, so it is possible. I would love to hear an explanation of how preservation of actual cellulose could occur for that long a period in a strata that is relatively porous.

fkaa

Yes sir, i wonder bout how it can be too...still don't really have a good working lead...everytime i think about it, i just shake my head sir. This is just a shot in the dark, but i have wondered maybe an intense heat-flash severely damaged a living tree that perhaps incenerated it's outside...then deposition shortly occured, and the outside wasted away before the whole thing could become petrified. Perhaps the tree if it had a burnt crust could chemically do something like that?....that's about the best i've been able to think of. Edited March 6, 2014 by Tennessees Pride

[squali]

If there were Tsunami's documented in the area it stands to reason that large erosion rills would be created during the back wash.

these rills would become drainage channels or filled in over time. The in filled rills could represent millions of years difference between the formations

These erosional features would cut into deeper strata and infill them with newer material.

It is some interesting material you have. I'm hoping someone familiar with mineralization processes can explain your specimens condition.