Shark, Ray, Fish, And Mammal Micros From The Alafia River In Florida

[MarcoSr]

I want to thank John S. for sending me two gallons of well washed coarse gravel and a quart baggie of well washed fine gravel from the Alafia River in Florida. The Alafia River has species from recent to the Oligocene. The fossil density was not as high as the Peace River matrix and a lot of the specimens were water worn/damaged. There were, however, some nicely persevered specimens. I found shark, ray, fish and mammal fossils. Dasyatis and Rhynchobatus were very common especially in the fine gravel. I am posting some of the nicer and more unusual specimens which I found which range in size from 1mm to 5mm. There are specimens that I do need id help with.

If you place your cursor on a JPEG image you will see the file name which will have the specimen id as best that I can determine and the specimen size. If you can identify the specimens further please do so. Each matrix that I search makes me more of an avid micro tooth collector. If anyone has or can collect good matrix with shark, ray, and fish micros please send me a PM.

A few of the shark teeth which I found. Note I am including two teeth that were very difficult to id.:

Hemipristis (I believe this is an Oligocene H. curvatus versus an Oligocene/Miocene H. serra);

Isogomphodon (note I looked closely at four possible genera to id this tooth):

Sphyrna (note I looked closely at three possible genera to id this tooth):

Some of the ray teeth which I found:

Dasyatis:

Rhynchobatus:

A partial fish mouth plate and three of the fish teeth which I found:

Two mammal teeth:

A specimen that I need id help (maybe just a really worn piece of bone):

Marco Sr.

[Haizahnjager]

Excellent work as usual Marco! Quick question: I was under the impression that H. curvatus was an Eocene species, and that H. serra appeared in the Oligocene. Has this recently changed?

Thanks again.

-HZJ

[sixgill pete]

Excellent as usual Marco. I agree the Hemi is curvatus.

HZJ, as I understand curvatus appeared in the Eocene through the middle/late Oligocene. serra appeared in the late Oligocene through the Miocene/Pliocene. There is also a species from the early Oligocene found in the River Bend (Trent River) formation in NC, early Oligocene H. wyattdurhami. Here is a link to a photo of one in my gallery.

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/gallery/image/25391-beautiful-hemipristis-wyattdurhami-labial-view/

[fossilized6s]

How big are these?

I ask because your second mammal tooth looks very simular to a muskrat tooth.

[Auspex]

How big are these?

If you hover your cursor over the image, it will give the size in the title (pretty nifty!).

[fossilized6s]

If you hover your cursor over the image, it will give the size in the title (pretty nifty!).

I wish i could, i broke my laptop a few weeks ago. So now im forced to do everything via smart phone....

[fossilized6s]

And call me crazy but the third mammal tooth that you think is a fish could be a claw. I also think your bone fragment may be a bison or horse tooth frag.

Just all guesses though........

[Plantguy]

Cool stuff Marco Sr! Regards, Chris

[MarcoSr]

I wish i could, i broke my laptop a few weeks ago. So now im forced to do everything via smart phone....

How big are these?

I ask because your second mammal tooth looks very simular to a muskrat tooth.

2014-03-06_18-14-15_764.jpg

The teeth are 1mm, 2mm and 2.5mm.

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

And call me crazy but the third mammal tooth that you think is a fish could be a claw. I also think your bone fragment may be a bison or horse tooth frag.

Just all guesses though........

I could see the third mammal specimen being a claw. I could also see it maybe being a rodent tooth. I could see mammal tooth 2 being a rodent tooth also. But would 2mm be too small for a muskrat tooth? The possible bone fragment isn't porous like I would expect for bone unless it is extremely water polished so I could see it being a tooth fragment. I don't see a lot of mammal specimens in VA so I'm terrible at the id of some of these.

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

Excellent as usual Marco. I agree the Hemi is curvatus.

HZJ, as I understand curvatus appeared in the Eocene through the middle/late Oligocene. serra appeared in the late Oligocene through the Miocene/Pliocene. There is also a species from the early Oligocene found in the River Bend (Trent River) formation in NC, early Oligocene H. wyattdurhami. Here is a link to a photo of one in my gallery.

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/gallery/image/25391-beautiful-hemipristis-wyattdurhami-labial-view/

Don

Thank you for the clarification on the Hemipristis.

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

Excellent work as usual Marco! Quick question: I was under the impression that H. curvatus was an Eocene species, and that H. serra appeared in the Oligocene. Has this recently changed?

Thanks again.

-HZJ

I agree with Don's clarification on H. curvatus and serra. I have personally found H. curvatus in both the Eocene and Oligocene. I went with Oligocene for the H. curvatus in this post because I was told the formation was as old as Oligocene.

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

Cool stuff Marco Sr! Regards, Chris

Chris

These are all specimens that you have access to in your rivers, streams, and creeks in Florida if you just take a little coarse/fine gravel home to search.

Marco Sr.

[Plantguy]

Chris

These are all specimens that you have access to in your rivers, streams, and creeks in Florida if you just take a little coarse/fine gravel home to search.

Marco Sr.

Hi Marco Sr. Oh, unfortunately I know whats out there and am purposely avoiding it. I was trying to break a habit of bringing home too much macro stuff now and that has not worked recently. Here are only 3 piles of many others that are drying out in the garage, awaiting sorting/culling and labeling. If I start lugging home matrix for micros I'll never leave/escape the garage cause the sorting/drying piles will be too tall.

I know most of you all are wishing you had so many problems. I will shut up as we are spoiled rotten here. Well, my only legitimate gripe is no macro plants for the most part round here.

Keep showing us all the micro goodies! Regards, Chris

[fossilized6s]

Hi Marco Sr. Oh, unfortunately I know whats out there and am purposely avoiding it. I was trying to break a habit of bringing home too much macro stuff now and that has not worked recently. Here are only 3 piles of many others that are drying out in the garage, awaiting sorting/culling and labeling. If I start lugging home matrix for micros I'll never leave/escape the garage cause the sorting/drying piles will be too tall.

Pile 3.jpgPile 2.jpgPile 1.jpg

I know most of you all are wishing you had so many problems. I will shut up as we are spoiled rotten here. Well, my only legitimate gripe is no macro plants for the most part round here.

Keep showing us all the micro goodies! Regards, Chris

I dont want to change the subject and snarge on the thread but......

Are those ground sloth teeth next to the barnicles in the cardboard box?

[Sacha]

Marco, I'm glad a definitive specimen from the Oligocene showed up in your package. That confirms the interpretation of the state map that I made for the upper stretch of the river I collected in. I have a couple boxes of that matrix left, but the fossil density is so low, I may just go through it myself to see if anything weird shows up. Haven't received your box yet but appreciate your consideration. I've been filling individual trays, 50 gem jars each, with micros from each of the locations I've collected from and the Alafia tray is pretty weak. Most, if not all, the displays are from your returned specimens.

I bought 6 of the trays and 4 are committed (Joshua, Peace, Rattlesnake and Alafia) so I need 2 more productive places.

[MarcoSr]

Hi Marco Sr. Oh, unfortunately I know whats out there and am purposely avoiding it. I was trying to break a habit of bringing home too much macro stuff now and that has not worked recently. Here are only 3 piles of many others that are drying out in the garage, awaiting sorting/culling and labeling. If I start lugging home matrix for micros I'll never leave/escape the garage cause the sorting/drying piles will be too tall.

Pile 3.jpgPile 2.jpgPile 1.jpg

I know most of you all are wishing you had so many problems. I will shut up as we are spoiled rotten here. Well, my only legitimate gripe is no macro plants for the most part round here.

Keep showing us all the micro goodies! Regards, Chris

Chris

You sure have a very nice variety of fossils sorting/drying. I do know what you mean about lugging stuff home. I had to cut way back because I have a basement full of boxes of mostly fossil bones already. But the matrix works out really well. After searching, the gravel winds up in the paths in my wife's gardens and the sand/clay residue winds up filling up gopher and other holes in my fields.

Marco Sr.

[MarcoSr]

Marco, I'm glad a definitive specimen from the Oligocene showed up in your package. That confirms the interpretation of the state map that I made for the upper stretch of the river I collected in. I have a couple boxes of that matrix left, but the fossil density is so low, I may just go through it myself to see if anything weird shows up. Haven't received your box yet but appreciate your consideration. I've been filling individual trays, 50 gem jars each, with micros from each of the locations I've collected from and the Alafia tray is pretty weak. Most, if not all, the displays are from your returned specimens.

I bought 6 of the trays and 4 are committed (Joshua, Peace, Rattlesnake and Alafia) so I need 2 more productive places.

John

Hopefully the box arrives today. That will give you some more Alafia River specimens. It was nice to find an Oligocene specimen. There is so much overlap between the species from the Oligocene and Miocene I may have more specimens from the Oligocene but really wouldn't be able to tell. Thank you for all the matrix. Maybe Wes can point you to another good matrix site.

Marco Sr.

[jcbshark]

Hi Marco Sr. Oh, unfortunately I know whats out there and am purposely avoiding it. I was trying to break a habit of bringing home too much macro stuff now and that has not worked recently. Here are only 3 piles of many others that are drying out in the garage, awaiting sorting/culling and labeling. If I start lugging home matrix for micros I'll never leave/escape the garage cause the sorting/drying piles will be too tall.

Pile 3.jpgPile 2.jpgPile 1.jpg

I know most of you all are wishing you had so many problems. I will shut up as we are spoiled rotten here. Well, my only legitimate gripe is no macro plants for the most part round here.

Keep showing us all the micro goodies! Regards, Chris

Oh Chris, isn't it terrible that we spend soooo much time hunting that you can't even put your stuff away lol.I've got three trips worth of goodies I still need to put in their respective places lol.

[jcbshark]

Marco, I'm glad a definitive specimen from the Oligocene showed up in your package. That confirms the interpretation of the state map that I made for the upper stretch of the river I collected in. I have a couple boxes of that matrix left, but the fossil density is so low, I may just go through it myself to see if anything weird shows up. Haven't received your box yet but appreciate your consideration. I've been filling individual trays, 50 gem jars each, with micros from each of the locations I've collected from and the Alafia tray is pretty weak. Most, if not all, the displays are from your returned specimens.

I bought 6 of the trays and 4 are committed (Joshua, Peace, Rattlesnake and Alafia) so I need 2 more productive places.

John, if you like I'll bring you some matrix from my area next time I see you.

[jcbshark]

Great pics as always Marco, I love the Hemi and mammal teeth!

[Plantguy]

Oh Chris, isn't it terrible that we spend soooo much time hunting that you can't even put your stuff away lol.I've got three trips worth of goodies I still need to put in their respective places lol.

Hey Jeff! Yep, life is a ____ and then you die. Cooked breakfast this morning and dinner tonight, 2 dishwasher loads done already and dishes/pots from dinner aren't done yet, did laundry, played with a few fossils that I wasnt supposed to be messing with at all today and dangit there is a new pile from Vulcan in the garage--at least they are out of my vehicle. And now I get to look forward to sleeping on the couch again tonight fighting for room on it with the wife's stinking cat! Now someone needs to get busy here! Stop procrastinating! Regards, Chris

[megafever]

oh my gosh those are amazing! I wish those were MINE

[MarcoSr]

oh my gosh those are amazing! I wish those were MINE

There are a lot of nice micro teeth in the formations of Maryland. If you know which material to screen at each site, you can bring home screened matrix/gravel and search for your own micros. Learning where to take material from is a real trial and error process.

Marco Sr.

[GreatWhiteMac]

Very cool little teeth!! Thanks for sharing!