Welsh Wizard Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Hi Me and my brother are hoping that we've found a dinosaur. It was found in Lower Jurassic marine deposits in the UK. The age of the deposits are Hettangian and we think it's from the Psiloceras Planorbis zone, which is almost at the base of the Jurassic. I've posted a thread on the UK Fossil Forum here: http://www.discussfossils.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5455&title=lavernock-point-dinosaur The important picture so far is this one: It shows what I think is a line of tail verts, with some neurals broken of and some still buried under the matrix. At first I thought they might be plesiosaur phlanages but they were with some long bones that looked like land animal bones. I think the large flat bone that I have partly uncovered is the animal's pelvis. To give you an idea of scale, the verts are about an inch long. Land animals in this deposit are virtually unheard of. My hope is that it is a dinosaur, but a crocodile is another possibility. Again crocodiles from these deposits are unheard of, so that'd be great as well. If anyone has any thoughts then I'd really like to hear from them. I've spent most of the week on the internet researching this as I have virtually no knowledge of dinosaur anatomy. What I have found out is that if it is an animal, especially a dinosaur, then it is extremely rare. Thanks Nick 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Im not an expert and i sadly can't identify your find. But from what you have said i think a big congratulations is in order! Great find! I'm anxiously awaiting further news, information, confirmation and pictures! ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) They are definitely bones! Do you have a size scale? (EDIT: Missed the size that they are about an inch long.) Seems tiny for dino....I'll leave the ID to the experts from that formation. Regardless, congrats on the find! Edited March 10, 2014 by Xiphactinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down under fossil hunter Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I would have guessed plesiosaur too but I am no expert. Great find either way, I hope you get a positive id! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welsh Wizard Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 Hi Charlie Thanks for the comments. We've got our fingers crossed Xiphactinus I sure appreciate your thoughts. If it is a dino, then its about the size of a large dog - not like a t-rex. DU Fossil Hunter Thanks for the encouragement. It does look like plesiosaur phlanges but I'm convinced they are verts. I could be wrong and I am getting it prepped soon to find out. Best regards Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 I've been following this in the UK forum as well and am really curious to hear what it is in the end. Sorry that I can't help, since I'm not a bone man. Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taogan Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 It needs to be prepped, what I can see is too ambiguous, all I can make out is that it is reptile bone. It could be Plesiosaur or it could be something else. Even if it is turns out to be Plesiosaur it is something special, most people only ever get Ichthyosaur from Lavernock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welsh Wizard Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 Hi Roger Please keep following the posts. I posted it here to see if any of the US dino experts had any thoughts, as it would be a late triassic/early jurassic form. Hi Taogan Yes I agree. If it's plesiosaur parts, it's still rare but I'm starting to doubt my own convictions. I'm still hoping its dino/land animal and I guess I'll soon find out as I'm going to get one of the pieces prepped out and see. I'm sure that piece is part of a tail, along with part of a pelvis, but I'm happy to be proved wrong as I'm a Chemical Engineer not a Palaeontologist. I think I'm getting too excited about this Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Whatever this turns out to be, it is a great find. Continuing to follow with anticipation.... All the best, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opisthotriton Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Well, it's certainly a great fossil, but we'll need larger pictures in more views, with a scale bar, to be able to say anything more. The flat "pelvic" bone looks especially interesting. Take lots of pictures during the prep process! We look forward to seeing more of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welsh Wizard Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 Hi Just a quick update. We've done some prep and its not a plesiosaur. Looking like a land animal. Lower Jurassic, Hettangian. Gotta be someone out there who knows this period and itd be good to have some thoughts. All the best Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Pretty exciting! I hope it pans out "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE&i Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Would it be time to think outside the box Nick. Have you checked the paleoenvironments , changinging sea levels of the area etc. Regards Darren. Regards.....D&E&i The only certainty with fossil hunting is the uncertainty. https://lnk.bio/Darren.Withers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taogan Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 You will probably have to show the actual specimen, who have you shown it to already? I know that most the guys at the National Museum of Wales are invert. specialists, you might have to take it to somewhere like the Sedgwick in Cambridge to find a specialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welsh Wizard Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Thanks Auspex. It's certainly exciting. We are really pleased with this find. Hi Darren It's a marine environment, definitely Hettangian, in fact the ichthyosaur that I posted a while ago came from about 4 meters away.......horizontally. There are oysters in the rock and it's well before the appearance of gryphaea and it's above the rhaetic bone beds. There are some footprints that have been found just down the coast and I know of one other dino bone (a centrum) that comes out of the area. The others I've seen have come from the Rhaetic deposits. Here's a good paper that shows how rare dino finds from the marine lower jurassic of the UK are. http://darrennaish.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/martill-et-al-2006-dinosaurs-in-marine-strata-and-review-kimmeridge-clay-formation-dinosaurs-from-uk.pdf Hi Taogan Photos have been shown to a couple of museums and they are sitting on the fence until it's been prepped. We've prepped two of the blocks so far and I've sent photographs to one expert for their thoughts. It's only a small animal, probably about the size of a sheep dog and what we've got is scattered. I'm still hoping it's a dinosaur. It's not a plesiosaur and it's unlikely to be a crocodile, which makes it a land animal of some sort. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Too old to be a sea otter I hope this is a dinosaur, but did the experts give you any advice on which bones would be diagnostic (skull of course, but which others). I know if that fossil was here, the local experts would CT scan it and 3d reconstruct it rather than prep it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rylawz Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Not many vertebrate people on this forum. I would help u out but I know very little about dinosaurs. Post your Proboscidea!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welsh Wizard Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Hi Scylla Not much advice from experts yet. We are only prepping one side with air abraders. The bone is in really soft crumbly shale which sits on hard limestone. We decided to prepare from the shale side and I guess it could go in a CT scale after to have a look at any bones that go into the hard rock. Funny thing is, when you mention dinosaurs, people immediately think of the huge articulated skeletons, not the little ones Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 What good is having experts if they don't share their expertise? Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Not many vertebrate people on this forum... I think that Lower Jurassic Small Dinosaurs is probably a fairly rare specialty...they're not the sort of thing one comes across very often! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanB Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Very exciting discussion to follow! Jean JeanB Montreal, QC, Canada Ordovician, Trenton group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I would love to see more pix. And better without the moistness. I am one of the vert people on this forum. For now I see plesiosaur paddle bones more than verts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welsh Wizard Posted March 15, 2014 Author Share Posted March 15, 2014 Very exciting discussion to follow! Jean Thanks Jean. It is pretty exciting. I would love to see more pix. And better without the moistness. I am one of the vert people on this forum. For now I see plesiosaur paddle bones more than verts. Hi JPC Definitely not plesiosaur bones - we uncovered some more and it is a sacral vert showing on the right and three tail verts on the left. We've uncovered another sacral and the process that goes with it. I've had two blocks prepped now and they are looking promising, but I've agreed that I'd wait until it was complete before posting any more pictures. I must admit, I had no idea what a sacral vertebrae was 2 days ago. Thanks Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welsh Wizard Posted March 16, 2014 Author Share Posted March 16, 2014 Hi all We've uncovered a claw with a "blood groove". It's looking likely to be a dino! We are so chuffed. Pictures will follow soon. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Bloody good!!! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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