MarcoSr Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) I want to thank Darren for sending me 1 kg of raw Jurassic Kellaways clay matrix from the Lower Oxford Clay of Peterborough, UK. This is the second time that I have searched Jurassic Kellaways clay matrix. I found a lot more different species this time. I found 10 very small shark and ray teeth, small fish teeth, fish otoliths, a single fish scale, several fish verts, a good number of Onychites (Cephalopod arm hooks), coprolites, a good number of one species of shell and several unknown micros that need id. I used boiling water for the first break down of the clay and then searched the residue. 3% H2O2 was used for my second breakdown which worked really well at removing the last bits of clay clinging to the fossils. I found almost all the shark and ray teeth in this residue. They were extremely small, .4mm to 1mm, and would not have been easy to pick out if they had any amount of clay still clinging to them. Any help in identifying the micros is appreciated. I have looked at multiple Underwood papers in trying to identify the shark and ray teeth but I don’t have firm ids yet. I am not really familiar with the UK Jurassic shark and ray species. If you move your cursor over each picture you will see a file name that will contain the species id as best that I can id it, or a name like “Unknown2” and the size in mm. You can reference these names if you have an id. Each matrix that I search makes me more of an avid micro tooth collector. If anyone has or can collect good matrix with shark, ray, and fish micros please send me a PM. I am especially interested in obtaining Eocene, middle Lutetian matrix from the Miretrain quarry, Landes, southwestern France and Cretaceous, Albian matrix from Texas. Shark Teeth (I usually don’t find shark teeth this small .4/.5mm.): Ray Teeth (Edit) I had trouble with two teeth determining whether they were shark or ray. Thanks to a paper that Alexander sent to me and a 2004 Charlie J. Underwood paper I have determined that they are shark, Protospinax sp. versus ray. I don't feel too badly about my confusion because originally Protospinax was considered a batoid (Masey 1976b) and latter shown not to be so (Carvalho and Maisey 1996). Fish (Note I found fish teeth, otoliths, several fish verts, one fish scale, and coprolites which are probably fish.): Onychites (I found a good number of these although most were damaged as they are extremely fragile.): Shells EDIT (There were a good number of this Gastropod, Procerithium damonis, of various sizes.): Continued in next reply. Marco Sr. Edited April 4, 2014 by MarcoSr 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Unknown (Any id help would be appreciated.): Edit: This specimen has been identified as an Annelid worm tube, Genicularia vertebralis. Marco Sr. Edited March 26, 2014 by MarcoSr "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 are onychites squid hooklets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 are onychites squid hooklets? Jean-Pierre You might want to check out the PDF on CEPHALOPOD ARM HOOKS FROM THE JURASSIC OF POLAND at the below link. https://www.app.pan.pl/archive/published/app17/app17-379.pdf Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Wow Marco, those shark teeth a really different from most that I've seen. Considering they have been on this planet for such an incredibly long time I imagine the evolution of them has branched out in a million ways.I wish they would be represented better in the fossil record ,I would assume their body shapes would have rivaled their teeth morphology in the number of ways they were suited for the environment. Thanks for sharing your pics Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Wow Marco, those shark teeth a really different from most that I've seen. Considering they have been on this planet for such an incredibly long time I imagine the evolution of them has branched out in a million ways.I wish they would be represented better in the fossil record ,I would assume their body shapes would have rivaled their teeth morphology in the number of ways they were suited for the environment. Thanks for sharing your pics Jeff I'm still surprised by how small the shark teeth were. Plus I still can't decide for sure on whether a couple of the specimens are from rays or sharks. It is amazing how long sharks and rays have been around. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahuijsmans Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Very nice! These shark and fishteeth seem remarkably similar to those I find in the Toarcian of Belgium... nice finds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Very nice! These shark and fishteeth seem remarkably similar to those I find in the Toarcian of Belgium... nice finds! Have you found a good source (publications/websites) to id your Toarcian teeth from Belgium? There are several papers by Charlie J. Underwood that describe Jurassic shark and ray species from the UK that will help definitely with the id of some of my specimens. However the more shark and ray species descriptions from the Jurassic that I can study, the more confident I will be in the id of my specimens. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busyeagle Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Those are some neat little teeth, Marco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 Those are some neat little teeth, Marco. Kyle Definitely a lot smaller than the neat specimens that you and your dad are finding. But searching matrix gives me something to do when the weather is bad and we can't get out to collect and lets me collect sites from all over that I could never get to in person. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahuijsmans Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Have you found a good source (publications/websites) to id your Toarcian teeth from Belgium? There are several papers by Charlie J. Underwood that describe Jurassic shark and ray species from the UK that will help definitely with the id of some of my specimens. However the more shark and ray species descriptions from the Jurassic that I can study, the more confident I will be in the id of my specimens. Marco Sr. I do actually... I'll look it up for you. It's a scientific paper written by a good friend of mine who helped me find the good material at the site... It may be of help, however..toarcian and callovian are very different... anyway... if you PM me your mail adres I'll give you the link to the PDF.. it is in French Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 I do actually... I'll look it up for you. It's a scientific paper written by a good friend of mine who helped me find the good material at the site... It may be of help, however..toarcian and callovian are very different... anyway... if you PM me your mail adres I'll give you the link to the PDF.. it is in French PM sent. I am always looking for good papers on shark and ray teeth. I can read French very well so that won't be a problem. I have a good friend in Belgium who has sent me matrix from a lot of the Belgium formations before but not any from the Toarcian. The closest would be the Rhaetian matrix that he has sent. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Hi, I am always looking for good papers on shark and ray teeth. If you look for titles in particular, you can indicate them to me because I have many PDF on the sharks Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Hi, If you look for titles in particular, you can indicate them to me because I have many PDF on the sharks Coco Coco Thank you for your kind offer. I am not needing a specific paper right now but I do need them from time to time and will definitely ask if you have a paper if I can't find it in the future. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 I do actually... I'll look it up for you. It's a scientific paper written by a good friend of mine who helped me find the good material at the site... It may be of help, however..toarcian and callovian are very different... anyway... if you PM me your mail adres I'll give you the link to the PDF.. it is in French Thank you for the paper. It helped me to identify two teeth that I was having trouble identifying as either shark or ray. I edited my original post accordingly. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE&i Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Unknown (Any id help would be appreciated.): Unknown1 17mm.jpg Unknown2 15mm.jpg Unknown3 4mm.jpg Marco Sr. I’m tentatively working my way through your stunning results. And here’s where I’m up to so far (unknown no1) would be one of my favourite Oxford Clay finds: The Annelid Genicularia vertebralis. Regards.....D&E&i The only certainty with fossil hunting is the uncertainty. https://lnk.bio/Darren.Withers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE&i Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Hi MarcoSr, Ostracods are proving to be a bit tricky: The matrix I sent you as you know is from the Kellaways, Lower Oxford Clay. And I know Ostracods are common in the Middle and Upper Oxford Clay, but are surprisingly infrequent in the Lower Oxford Clay. This might in part be due to reduced oxygen levels within the basin, or due to the soft nature of the substrate. Callovian and Oxfordian ostracod faunas have been examined by Whatley ( 1964, 1970), but most of the important work remains unpublished ( Whatley, 1965). Also as far as I’m aware an Ostracod biozone has not been erected for the base of the Lower Oxford Clay. So at present I think we have ourselves something Very Interesting indeed..! Regards.....D&E&i The only certainty with fossil hunting is the uncertainty. https://lnk.bio/Darren.Withers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 I’m tentatively working my way through your stunning results. And here’s where I’m up to so far (unknown no1) would be one of my favourite Oxford Clay finds: The Annelid Genicularia vertebralis. Darren It is great that you could id the worm tube. I edited my post to reflect the id. The specimen is in the plastic baggie in the material that I sent back to you. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 could some of those be dermal denticles? "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 could some of those be dermal denticles? Herb They are definitely small enough to be dermal denticles but I'm pretty sure now that they are all shark teeth from the different papers on the Jurassic of the UK that I have been able to find. I believe that I have up to five different species of shark teeth based upon a Charlie Underwood paper. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE&i Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Hi Marco Sr, Im pressing on with desrcription for the micros : The Gastropod you found. Order CAENOGASTROPODA Superfamily CERITHIACEA Family PROCERITHIIDAE Genus PROCER1THWM Procerithium damonis (Lycett) Description: Small high spired turriculate shell with many whorls which are gently rounded and broadly convex. Sutures strongly impressed aperture with short siphonal canal, tear drop shaped based flattened anomphalous. Early whorls strongly rounded, without ornament on later whorls consists of strong intersecting collabral and spiral elements which produce pronounced varices that are most prominent on the last whorl. Epifaunal or semi-infaunal deposit feeder distribution. Distribution: Very abundant in the Lower Oxford Clay of central and southern England especially in the shell beds forming monospecific pyrite plaques. Less common in the Middle and Upper Oxford Clay, though widely distributed. Regards.....D&E&i The only certainty with fossil hunting is the uncertainty. https://lnk.bio/Darren.Withers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Marco Sr., You must be hoping for a viper shark tooth. Good luck. Jess Marco Sr said: I am especially interested in obtaining Eocene, middle Lutetian matrix from the Miretrain quarry, Landes, southwestern France and Cretaceous, Albian matrix from Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 Marco Sr., The Middle-Late Jurassic is the time when rays diverged from sharks so you will see some weird little teeth - relatives of the earliest rays and maybe even one of them. Jess Jeff I'm still surprised by how small the shark teeth were. Plus I still can't decide for sure on whether a couple of the specimens are from rays or sharks. It is amazing how long sharks and rays have been around. Marco Sr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 Hi Marco Sr, Im pressing on with desrcription for the micros : The Gastropod you found. 1.jpg Order CAENOGASTROPODA Superfamily CERITHIACEA Family PROCERITHIIDAE Genus PROCER1THWM Procerithium damonis (Lycett) Description: Small high spired turriculate shell with many whorls which are gently rounded and broadly convex. Sutures strongly impressed aperture with short siphonal canal, tear drop shaped based flattened anomphalous. Early whorls strongly rounded, without ornament on later whorls consists of strong intersecting collabral and spiral elements which produce pronounced varices that are most prominent on the last whorl. Epifaunal or semi-infaunal deposit feeder distribution. Distribution: Very abundant in the Lower Oxford Clay of central and southern England especially in the shell beds forming monospecific pyrite plaques. Less common in the Middle and Upper Oxford Clay, though widely distributed. Darren Thank you for the id. I've edited my original post to reflect the id. These Gastropods were very abundant in the matrix which supports that it was Lower Oxford Clay. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted April 4, 2014 Author Share Posted April 4, 2014 Marco Sr., You must be hoping for a viper shark tooth. Good luck. Jess Marco Sr said: I am especially interested in obtaining Eocene, middle Lutetian matrix from the Miretrain quarry, Landes, southwestern France and Cretaceous, Albian matrix from Texas. Jess Cappetta's 2012 Chondrichthyes Volume 3E has page after page of shark teeth from Miretrain, all species that I do not have in my collection. There are several species of Etmopteridae among them. The quarry may be closed now but supposedly there are others in the area with the same species. Hopefully I will eventually find a collector in France who can collect good matrix from this area. Marco Sr., The Middle-Late Jurassic is the time when rays diverged from sharks so you will see some weird little teeth - relatives of the earliest rays and maybe even one of them. Jess I usually am only trying to figure out a species or sometimes a genus of a shark or ray. I'm really not used to being unsure of whether a tooth is a shark or ray. Some of these Jurassic teeth are tough to figure out. Some it has taken the experts a while to figure out and they were able to do so by finding associated specimens. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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