Biconoid22 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 This is a tooth I dug in northern Santa Barbara County that has possible damage from another shark. I'm am not sure of this and want to hear your opinions. It is from a Pliocene conglomerate and a slight polish to it from the ancient environment it was in. Also if anyone happened to know the exact species that would be great to know too. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 It may be a 'bitten tooth', which is generally believed to be self-inflicted. I only wish I could make out serration marks in the damaged area, which would support the idea. It could also have been subsequently swallowed and partially digested; is the patina of wear typical of teeth from that area, or is this one aberrant in appearance? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark57 Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I agree with Auspex, the tooth probably came loose in the shark's mouth and he bit his own tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I think that looks more like damage that took place after it fossilized. It's in pretty good shape for a tooth from a conglomerate. This is a tooth I dug in northern Santa Barbara County that has possible damage from another shark. I'm am not sure of this and want to hear your opinions. It is from a Pliocene conglomerate and a slight polish to it from the ancient environment it was in. Also if anyone happened to know the exact species that would be great to know too. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowsharks Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I'm also inclined to think it is a bitten tooth due to the equidistant gouge marks; it gives the appearance of being bitten and the gauge marks coming from the close spacing of the teeth in a sharks mouth, whether in one file or row. Secondly, this tooth appears to be a Great White, Carcharodon carcharias. Daryl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powelli1 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Darly Wow a very nice toooth an I have to go along with Chas & Gary on this one, I have around 100 teeth that have been bitten and looking at the third photo witch is the side view of the tooth it was done before it fell out of the mouth, so I vote for he did to him self. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biconoid22 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 The teeth from this site are polished by the ocean before being "fossilized" and can be very worn down to where u cant see any serrations on the teeth. This tooth has a polish to it too. It is also polished a little bit in the alleged bite mark which would have erased any serration marks. The largest rocks in the conglomerate are usually fairly flat and about 4 inches across. I just can't see a rock doing such damage without harming the serration marks on the tooth or breaking the root off. Also just the way the damage is done would have to have been multiple hits in the same area to cause each chunk missing from the tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biconoid22 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 The tooth was NOT damaged during the excavation process. The slight polish in the bite marks and the way matrix was packed in them back this up. Its pretty easy to tell damage done to the teeth during excavation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 No matter how I look at this tooth I just can't see all of the damage as self inflicted unless the tooth was bitten multiple times. The spacing of the groves is just too close for tooth tip damage and too far for serration type damage. For tip damage, you either have upper and lower teeth causing the damage in a bite but based upon the tooth size the spacing of the damage is too close even if you consider alternate groves for upper and lower teeth or you have the damage caused by teeth in a file where you have one possibly two active files and even for this the damage is too close. So if self inflicted either there were multiple bites or some of the damage was not self inflicted. The crown damage does look like it is post fossilization. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Santa Barbara County? Pliocene rocks? What locality/formation is this, if you don't mind me asking? feel free to pm me if you're more comfortable with that. I'm always looking for more Pliocene marine mammal localities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powelli1 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Can you give us a few more photos of the tooth but make them a litte more close up and sharper. Thank You George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientEarth Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Bobby,The tooth is from the same locality as the odontocete specimens I showed you last year.http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/40693-late-pliocene-odontocete-fossils-from-california/I got to hold this tooth and the damage wasn't evident when dug, was caked in soil. After reading your collective responces, I agree it was probably bitten in mouth. I tend to lean towards being bitten in the gum line, then maybe spit, looking at how configured in a modern whites jawline, I find that plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biconoid22 Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Here are a couple more pics of the tooth, hopefully they help some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Looks like it probably came loose while feeding and took an oblique swipe from the shark's own jaws. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powelli1 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Yes I still say he did it to himself and its a very nice tooth. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-remanié Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I cant't even imagine any possible way for this type of damage to have occurred if not for biting itself or a human purposefully altering it (and then rock-tumbling it to match). So, whether one bite or not, he did it to himself in my opinion. Nice find! ---Wie Wasser schleift den Stein, wir steigen und fallen--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Bad case of Great White TMJ. Nervous shark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I cant't even imagine any possible way for this type of damage to have occurred if not for biting itself or a human purposefully altering it (and then rock-tumbling it to match). So, whether one bite or not, he did it to himself in my opinion. Nice find! Steve I see this kind of damage a lot in the winter time. Teeth get frozen solid into the beach and then partially thaw. Then the wave action beats them out of the beach. I've also seen teeth in clay blocks from cliff slides where the block broke right along the edge. However this tooth does look like it has self inflicted damage. But again to get the damage shown by the lines Auspex has drawn, the tooth would have had to be bitten multiple times or some of the damage was not self inflicted. Marco Sr. "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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