Tennessees Pride Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Here is a very large tooth i found about 2-3 weeks back. It was found in this state of decay, and even though it looks bad, i'm actually impressed that i was able to save and preserve as much of this specimen as i did. The tooth was practically falling to pieces when found, just geting it back to the lab was almost impossible, then trying to extract it from the ferrocrete matrix was right at hopeless!....i layered it with hardner as i cleaned some matrix away...slowly, alittle at a time...still, some was lost and this was simply the best that could be done to save what bit of the tooth i could. With that being said, i wouldn't be a bit suprised if it is in such a state that it can't now be identified! I'm hoping though that someone can give an i.d. This tooth may be ugly, but what i had to go through to get it, i'm very proud of it. i can only guess at how much was already missing by the time i found it....it seems to have been about a 1/2 inch in diameter (or a hair more) in cross section at the base originally. This tooth does compare favorably w/ another Mosasaur tooth i have, but i'd like the opinions of anyone else i could get please, cause i'm not certain what mouth it came out of. I will also attach an "in situ" of the tooth to show what a job i was in for. Thanks for anything you all may be able to tell me about it. It's Late Cretaceous, Campanian. Edited May 14, 2014 by Tennessees Pride --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 In Situ --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) looks more fishy to me... Xiphactinus or Enchodus? Too thin to be mosasaur. Maybe plesiosaur... What do the Kansas folks think of this one? Edited May 14, 2014 by jpc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 looks more fishy to me... Xiphactinus or Enchodus? Too thin to be mosasaur. Maybe plesiosaur... What do the Kansas folks think of this one? Oh boy oh boy jpc! Maybe this specimen might be identifiable after all! --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 My first impression because of it's thin nature was a Sawfish rostrum tooth. But im probably way off, as i don't know much about Cretaceous creatures just yet.... ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) My first impression because of it's thin nature was a Sawfish rostrum tooth. But im probably way off, as i don't know much about Cretaceous creatures just yet....Thank you sir, i know alot of it's missing and it has to be hard to determine anything about it. I just went and looked at the tooth again, and from what i can tell, i can't see that the base would have a diameter greater than 9/16 of an inch. Edited May 14, 2014 by Tennessees Pride --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I think it's a very large Xiphactinus tooth. An Enchodus fang would be more straight. It's a biggun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 My first impression because of it's thin nature was a Sawfish rostrum tooth. But im probably way off, as i don't know much about Cretaceous creatures just yet.... I can see that possibly in the squared off look to the base in pic two. If it's an Ischyrhiza, and they made monsters in the Maastrichtian, it's missing the root. Not refuting what xiphactinus has said either though. It's tough to diagnose in this condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Here's some helpful info in here to help with furthering the ID process. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/19717-plesiosaur-tooth-from-nj/page-2 ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Oh no! fossilized6s linked to my epic "crow-eating" thread. I'll sneak out the back now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Bwahahaha! Unintentional sir. But some good stuff to look for to get an ID. ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramo Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I'll back you up X-man. I too think X-fish. Ramo For one species to mourn the death of another is a new thing under the sun. -Aldo Leopold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) I think it's a very large Xiphactinus tooth. An Enchodus fang would be more straight. It's a biggun! Xiphactinus, i been setting here thinking about this subject over a bowl of mac&cheese, and there's something that's just burning up in my mind. Before i get to far along in this, i'd like to express that i'm not trying to dispute your's or anyone else's opinions regarding this tooth....i'm simply trying to understand everything in context. Now this i know is gonna sound amateurish of me, but i haven't thought till now to compare the tooth against other material i'm recovering out of that layer. Reason being....it was just a tooth!.....i guess i just have developed that mindset from collecting shark teeth out of that layer for so long!( there's almost never anything but the sharks teeth that remains of that animal).....anyways, a couple things have come to mind, i know you can help with this, because you have personally handled Xiphactinus bones....i found a large bone frag pretty close to the find area of this tooth in the past....think it may have even been the same day. Does this frag resemble that type of fish bone in your opinion sir? I've only personally viewed casts of those fish, so i really have no idea. It kinda makes me think Plesiosaur bone. And also, i made a blunder this morning when i said i had a Mosasaur tooth i thought it was agreeable with....i meant Plesiosaur tooth. A final thought that has entered my mind is a large pebble that's smooth all over,i found it in the same layer extremely close to the tooth....kept it because it was unusual to me....there are no large pebbles present in this layer that i can tell, and i've worked it over pretty good over the months......makes me wonder now if that item is a gastrolith or not. I know there is no direct evidence to connect the materials all together, i'm just trying to examine everything in context....just incase there is a disarticulated and munched skeleton at the site. What do you think about the bone frag sir? Edited May 14, 2014 by Tennessees Pride --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Here's that Plesiosaur tooth i was thinking shared a similarity to the recovered specimen. It is purchased material from North Africa, and i'm guessing it to be real. --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 The large smooth pebble from the layer..... --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 That bone fragment looks way too heavy for Xiphactinus. It might be a plesiosaur/pliosaur tooth. I'm not as knowledgeable about those as some others on the forum. Most of the large reptile teeth this shape I've seen have distinct grooves running down the length of them. Given that the tooth in question came near that bone fragment, that might throw the Xiphactinus ID into doubt. I think we need some of our NJ Cretaceous folks to weigh in. That's most similar to what you are finding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) That bone fragment looks way too heavy for Xiphactinus. It might be a plesiosaur/pliosaur tooth. I'm not as knowledgeable about those as some others on the forum. Most of the large reptile teeth this shape I've seen have distinct grooves running down the length of them. Given that the tooth in question came near that bone fragment, that might throw the Xiphactinus ID into doubt. I think we need some of our NJ Cretaceous folks to weigh in. That's most similar to what you are finding. Thank you very much sir, i still am trying to be very cautious though because i have no direct evidence to connect all of these items together specifically, even though they have came out of the same layer in near proximity to one another. Do you think it would be atleast safe to say that the tooth could be narrowed down to coming from three possible choices only: Xiphactinus, Sawfish, or Plesiosaur? Edited May 14, 2014 by Tennessees Pride --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) I can see that possibly in the squared off look to the base in pic two. If it's an Ischyrhiza, and they made monsters in the Maastrichtian, it's missing the root. Not refuting what xiphactinus has said either though. It's tough to diagnose in this condition. Thank you sir, i'm looking up that Sawfish up....i don't know if this makes a difference but the specimen was actually recovered out of Campanian instead of Maastrichtian. Edited May 14, 2014 by Tennessees Pride --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Here's some helpful info in here to help with furthering the ID process. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/19717-plesiosaur-tooth-from-nj/page-2 Thanks Charlie, i will check out that link... --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 I've found another frag from the layer so far, but don't want to speculate on it much cause i don't have it preped and can't tell much about it yet. --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vertman Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 So, stagewise, this being Campanian, it should be roughly in sync with the deposits of the North Sulphur River here in north Texas. Unfortunately, both Xiphactinus and plesiosaur material are sometimes recovered from these strata. So I don't think you can eliminate one or the other based on the age of the deposit. Both Xiphactinus and plesiosaur teeth are pretty rounded. So I don't think I can guess from that feature. I don't think most Xiphactinus teeth that I have seen curve toward the end. They seem to be much straighter. I can take a look at mine when I get home tonight to verify but I am almost certain of the lack of curve on them. So, my guess would be plesiosaur. I could be very wrong as it is hard to tell much from the condition of the specimen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) So, stagewise, this being Campanian, it should be roughly in sync with the deposits of the North Sulphur River here in north Texas. Unfortunately, both Xiphactinus and plesiosaur material are sometimes recovered from these strata. So I don't think you can eliminate one or the other based on the age of the deposit. Both Xiphactinus and plesiosaur teeth are pretty rounded. So I don't think I can guess from that feature. I don't think most Xiphactinus teeth that I have seen curve toward the end. They seem to be much straighter. I can take a look at mine when I get home tonight to verify but I am almost certain of the lack of curve on them. So, my guess would be plesiosaur. I could be very wrong as it is hard to tell much from the condition of the specimen. vertman, i truly appreciate your time and efforts you put in to trying to i.d. this badly decomposed specimen. Edited May 14, 2014 by Tennessees Pride --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Vertman, one thing to keep in mind is that our KS and TX fish are X audax and in the east they are X vetus and the teeth are somewhat different. I've been burned by the eastern X fish before! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-remanié Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) In X. vetus (especially on large teeth) there is a definite recurve towards the tip as in this specimen. My guess is Xiphactinus, but it could be Plesiosaur. Edited May 15, 2014 by non-remanié ---Wie Wasser schleift den Stein, wir steigen und fallen--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 I am going with X-fish for my guess. Here's my Plesiosaur tooth from Monmouth county NJ. I have only found one X-fish tooth, and it was much smaller than yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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