thirdeye Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Hi, anyone know what this is? It is 4.625 inches long and heavier than expected. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Siphuncle Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Camelid phalanx methinks... Grüße, Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas "To the motivated go the spoils." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Methinks danwoehr is correct-a-mundo! -Joe Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdeye Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 Thanks danwoehr and Fruitbat. Time to research a camelid phalanx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Siphuncle Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Means it could be Paleolama, Hemiauchenia, or Camelops, the latter usually being the biggest. I'm not good at telling them apart otherwise without a description in hand. Grüße, Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas "To the motivated go the spoils." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 It is indeed a camel first phalanx. I would need to see some straight-on pictures instead of these oblique-angle shots to tell which camelid it is. Need a scale in each picture. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 There are other possibilities - there are several giant camels. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 That's a big one. It seem gracile for its length . . . maybe Camelops is a good guess. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 The shape of the ligament scars on the ventral (posterior) surface would nail it down. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Ya' know, I don't see any ligament scars in that second image. I'm gonna' post an image of some synthetocerine phalanges which have no scars. Maybe this toe is something older than Pleistocene. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 A check of the Sterling/Logan county geology says age is Miocene if that helps your ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 It's definitely camelid. The various horned ruminants have much different proximal phalanges. If we can get a good picture of the ligament scars, we'll know. I'm suspecting it is Hemiauchenia macrocephala, and Rancholabrean. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdeye Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Thanks for all the help and interest. Here's a few more pics that might help. Also, it is 119 mm long and the big end measures 44 x 38 mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdeye Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdeye Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 And another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yes, the very short ligmentary scars suggest Hemiauchenia. Camelops has scars that extend at least 50% the length of the bone. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 RichW9090 Posted Yesterday, 09:07 PM It's definitely camelid. The various horned ruminants have much different proximal phalanges. If we can get a good picture of the ligament scars, we'll know. I'm suspecting it is Hemiauchenia macrocephala, and Rancholabrean. Maybe my old eyes are letting me down, but I don't see any ligament scars on thirdeye's phalanx. Knowing that the Miocene saw a profusion of tylopods (and ruminants, but let's stick to tylopods), I wouldn't presume to identify this single element to subfamily, much less to genus. But . . . call me overly cautious. Here's why I'm cautious. One of the phalanges in the below images is not a camelid. Can anyone pick it out, and identify it to genus? http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I agree that it is hard to see a ligament scar given the poorly focused picture, but this is what I think I see: The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Here's why I'm cautious. One of the phalanges in the below images is not a camelid. Can anyone pick it out, and identify it to genus? Here is the answer to the poser I offered earlier in the thread. Phalanx "B" is from Prosynthetoceras cf. P. texanus. This is one of those strange-looking slingshot-horned ungulates. (They had forked nasal horns as well as brow horns.) Below are three examples of phalanges from this creature. Hulbert provides this taxonomy (abbreviated for this post): Infraorder TYLOPODA .....Superfamily CAMELOIDEA ..........Family CAMELIDAE .....Superfamily PROTOCERATOIDEA ..........Family PROTOCERATIDAE ...............Prosynthetoceras texanus Infraorder RUMINANTIA http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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