Multiple Ids Needed On Ordovician Fossils

[MarcusFossils]

Some new finds in the Richelieu Valley, Quebec, Canada. Approximately 450 million years old.

Any IDs would be much appreciated. Also, whats the rarest/ most interesting thing here?

(1) (2)

(3) (4)

(5) (6)

(7) (8)

Thanks in advance,

Regards

Edited July 31, 2014 by MarcusFossils

[Fossildude19]

My best gueses are:

1 looks to be a juvenile Isotelus sp. trilobite.

2 looks like an Isotelus pygidium.

3 - Cephalopod imprint?

4 - Gastropod

5 - ?? Maybe a brachiopod?

6 - Strophomenid brachiopod - maybe Rafinesquina sp.

7 - another Strophomenid, and a few others - (Laeptaena for one - lower right)

8 another cephalopod imprint.

Sorry I cannot be of more help.

Have you researched what fauna has been found there?

Regards,

Edited July 31, 2014 by Fossildude19

[Ludwigia]

I agree with Tim. I'm also not sure about 5. Everything else is quite common.

[Fossildude19]

Upon closer inspection, #5 could be a coiled cephalopod or gastropod - probably would need to prep out some matrix from around it to figure it out for sure.

I think the juvenile isotelus is pretty cool - I think it is so common, however, that you should send it to me.

Regards,

[Ludwigia]

Everything else is quite common.

That's not to say that they aren't nice I was also wondering about ceph on 5.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Ludwigia

[piranha]

The Richelieu Valley area has lower Ordovician faunal elements. If that is confirmed the trilobites are very similar to Isoteloides.

[Fossildude19]

The Richelieu Valley area has lower Ordovician faunal elements. If that is confirmed the trilobites are very similar to Isoteloides.

IMG1.jpg

Thanks for putting me straight, Scott!

Your knowledge is always appreciated.

Regards,

[piranha]

Thanks for putting me straight, Scott!

Your knowledge is always appreciated.

Regards,

It's only a hunch for now, first someone needs to confirm the collection locality is lower Ordovician. Attached is a generalized locality map where two different species of Isoteloides (I. canalis & I. peri) are recorded in approximately 30 unique localities in the vicinity of the Richelieu Valley.

Desbiens, S., Bolton, T.E., & McCracken, A.D. (1996)

Fauna of the lower Beauharnois Formation (Beekmantown Group, Lower Ordovician), Grande-Île, Quebec.

Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences, 33(8):1132-1153

[piranha]

Southern Quebec also has localities of Chazyan age (Laval Fm) with Isotelus. The attached map shows a similar vicinity with Laval Fm localities. Hopefully the OP can help pinpoint the precise locality from one of these maps.

 

 

Hofmann, H.J. 1963

Ordovician Chazy Group in Southern Quebec.

American Association of Petroleum Geologists, Bulletin 47(2):270-301

 

 

 

[MarcusFossils]

Im quite certain these are upper ordovician (lorraine formation), but I could be wrong.

I just found this today. Its unlike anything ive ever seen

[Auspex]

Maybe a trilobite pygidium (under-cast)?

[piranha]

On 8/1/2014 at 10:20 AM, MarcusFossils said:

...Im quite certain these are upper ordovician (lorraine formation), but I could be wrong.

 

 

Thanks for adding the locality info. It's fun and informative to contemplate the possibilities, but knowing you collected these from the Lorraine Fm allows more precise IDs. The complete trilobite appears to match very well with Isotelus gigas. The assorted pygidia could also be from Isotelus maximus. Both species are recorded in the Lorraine so additional samples would assist with measurements and ratios. A juvenile Isotelus maximus has remarkably different features than a holaspid (adult) form. If you keep poking around you will certainly find some more good ones. Congrats!

 

 

Foerste, A.F. (1924)

Upper Ordovician faunas of Ontario and Quebec.

Geological Survey of Canada, Memoir, 138:1-255

 

 

 

[MarcusFossils]

Maybe a trilobite pygidium (under-cast)?

~.JPG

I was thinking that also, but it's HUGE! And it has horizontal lines all over it, so its not isotelus which is the only trilobite even close to that size. It alsmost looks like a oyster or something

[MarcusFossils]

Upon closer inspection, #5 could be a coiled cephalopod or gastropod - probably would need to prep out some matrix from around it to figure it out for sure.

I think the juvenile isotelus is pretty cool - I think it is so common, however, that you should send it to me.

Regards,

Is it possible that #5 is cyrtolites? Edited August 1, 2014 by MarcusFossils

[Fossildude19]

Is it possible that #5 is cyrtolites?

Doesn't look like the examples I see online, but I am far from being an expert in ordovician fauna.

I think more prep might tell the tale better.

Regards,

[FossilDAWG]

I suspect your mystery fossil in post #10 is a flattened Sphenosphaera, a bellerophontid gastropod that flared out very widely. Foerste, in his study "Upper Ordovician Faunas of Ontario and Quebec", describes and figures Bellerophon parksi (Figure XXXV, nos 4a-e); this species is a synonym of Sphenosphaera mohri according to the first link.

You should be able to ID most or all of your finds from the Foerste paper. Bear in mind that many of the names have been changed since 1916, so you will do well to get the old name from the Foerste paper and then google it to see if you can find a more recent name. Foerste was a notorious "splitter", which is to say he described new species sometimes based on features that just represent variation between individuals, or sometimes taphonomic features such as flattening and associated spreading or cracking.

Don

[MarcusFossils]

I suspect your mystery fossil in post #10 is a flattened Sphenosphaera, a bellerophontid gastropod that flared out very widely. Foerste, in his study "Upper Ordovician Faunas of Ontario and Quebec", describes and figures Bellerophon parksi (Figure XXXV, nos 4a-e); this species is a synonym of Sphenosphaera mohri according to the first link.

You should be able to ID most or all of your finds from the Foerste paper. Bear in mind that many of the names have been changed since 1916, so you will do well to get the old name from the Foerste paper and then google it to see if you can find a more recent name. Foerste was a notorious "splitter", which is to say he described new species sometimes based on features that just represent variation between individuals, or sometimes taphonomic features such as flattening and associated spreading or cracking.

Don

I must thank you. I've been looking for this kind of an article for ages. You'll be seen a lot less of me on the fossi I'd forum!

[FossilDAWG]

... You'll be seen a lot less of me on the fossi I'd forum!

I hope that doesn't happen!! That was not my intent at all! Maybe you won't ask for IDs quite so often, but at least come here and show us what you're finding. Also as you gain experience you should be able to help out when other people ask for IDs.

Don

[MarcusFossils]

I suspect your mystery fossil in post #10 is a flattened Sphenosphaera, a bellerophontid gastropod that flared out very widely. Foerste, in his study "Upper Ordovician Faunas of Ontario and Quebec", describes and figures Bellerophon parksi (Figure XXXV, nos 4a-e); this species is a synonym of Sphenosphaera mohri according to the first link.

You should be able to ID most or all of your finds from the Foerste paper. Bear in mind that many of the names have been changed since 1916, so you will do well to get the old name from the Foerste paper and then google it to see if you can find a more recent name. Foerste was a notorious "splitter", which is to say he described new species sometimes based on features that just represent variation between individuals, or sometimes taphonomic features such as flattening and associated spreading or cracking.

Don

Do you know of any way to download a copy of this as a pdf?

[piranha]

Do you know of any way to download a copy of this as a pdf?

You need institutional access with a subscription to download the entire monograph. Previously I sent you an an abbreviated version (92 pages) of Part 1 (overview) and systematic paleontology for the trilobites. Later today I'll send you a PDF with all the photo plates to assist with your IDs.

[MarcusFossils]

You need institutional access with a subscription to download the entire monograph. Previously I sent you an an abbreviated version (92 pages) of Part 1 (overview) and systematic paleontology for the trilobites. Later today I'll send you a PDF with all the photo plates to assist with your IDs.

Thanks again Scott! The plates will be extremely useful in identifying my future finds.

[MarcusFossils]

Pterotheca pentagona for the last picture (9)

[piranha]

Pterotheca pentagona for the last picture (9)

Indeed! Glad to see the Foerste plates put to good use. Well done!

[FossilDAWG]

Looks like a good ID to me. It's always easier to make comparisons with the actual specimen in hand than it is working from a photo.

Don

[PeterJWagner]

The gastropod probably is a Clathrospira: it has the distinctive strong bilineate selenizone with a fairly flat upper ramp and a moderate spire-height. It is hard to be certain of the exact species without seeing a bit more of the specimen.