-Andy- Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) Hi all, Here is a large tooth with root from Solo River of Java, Indonesia that is supposedly 1.8 million to 200,000 years old. It is identified only as being a carnivorous tooth. My guess would be a crocodile. Anyone can help shed more light on this? Thank you! Edited August 9, 2014 by -Andy- Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 I made an edit. After consulting the seller, he said that he actually wasn't sure if it's a mammal tooth. As it is, he thought it could be crocodile as well. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 No, definitely not crocodilian . . . those teeth have an open pulp chamber, while this caniniform tooth has a closed chamber. 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 It looks similar to a Whale tooth, but the root is too small and actually tapers in.... No guesses Harry? ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 Here's another 2 pic Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhw Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 Pinniped of some sort? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted August 9, 2014 Share Posted August 9, 2014 The first task is to find an account of the carnivores of the Plio-Pleistocene Solo River deposits. A tiger is one possibility, but just a possibility. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 Pinniped of some sort? It does resemble sea lion teeth to me. But I can't imagine there being any sea lions on Java. The first task is to find an account of the carnivores of the Plio-Pleistocene Solo River deposits. A tiger is one possibility, but just a possibility. Yeah tiger is possible. The only large predator I know that existed on Solo River are crocodiles. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Harry, There is an early tiger and at least one species of hyena known from there but apparently no canids. It looks a little water-worn so it may be more slender than it was. I think I have a paper on that - will check. I agree that it is not a crocodile tooth. I've seen a big croc tooth from there before. Some of those Javan fossils used to show up at shows (extinct hippo teeth and deer teeth mostly). Jess The first task is to find an account of the carnivores of the Plio-Pleistocene Solo River deposits. A tiger is one possibility, but just a possibility. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 For comparison: http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 A 5-inch Canine. I have a large Jaguar Canine -- looks something like this and it is 2.6 inches. A friend has a 3.5 inch Jaguar Canine. Large Predator -- Cave Bear ? Tiger ? Lion ? The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 A 5-inch Canine. I have a large Jaguar Canine -- looks something like this and it is 2.6 inches. A friend has a 3.5 inch Jaguar Canine. Large Predator -- Cave Bear ? Tiger ? Lion ? I will get a better idea once I have it in my hands. Whatever it is though, it must have been a pretty incredible predator. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 You are buying this sight-unseen? In the images in post #5, the root of this canine appears unnatural . . . painted, restored. The root is too long for the crown, and that is what has been giving us trouble. That's my best assessment after reflection. 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 You are buying this sight-unseen? In the images in post #5, the root of this canine appears unnatural . . . painted, restored. The root is too long for the crown, and that is what has been giving us trouble. That's my best assessment after reflection. I agree that it is a questionable fossil. But I will only truly know after I have my hands on it. Besides, I am not paying alot for it. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carcharodontosaurus Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I agree that the authenticity of this tooth is questionable. I'd ask a paleontologist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 The tooth arrived....split in two. Well the minor good news is that now I can better know if this is a genuine tooth. Here's some pics. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Honestly, it looks like a Gator or Croc tooth with a fake root attached. Don't take my word for it at all. That's just my impression. What did the seller say it was? ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Honestly, it looks like a Gator or Croc tooth with a fake root attached. Don't take my word for it at all. That's just my impression. What did the seller say it was? He isn't sure at all. He would like to think its a croc tooth, but he says the size and form is wrong. At best, he would say it's a mammal. Both ends are quite heavy. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Andy can you take a picture directly into the broken end of the root. If you lightly tap the root with a solid object is the sound even all around? What's the texture look like to you, Real, fabricated or don't know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I believe that this is someone's conception of a canine root . . . if crocodilians were mammals. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Andy can you take a picture directly into the broken end of the root. If you lightly tap the root with a solid object is the sound even all around? What's the texture look like to you, Real, fabricated or don't know? The object actually feels identical throughout. While the texture could be carved from wood, it also feels like it could be a real tooth. I mean, it certainly looks and feel better than many of the fabricated Moroccan teeth out there. I agree it could also be a croc tooth with a fake root, here's another pic. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I think I agree with others that its as fake root but I've never seen one that was restored with an interior looking like that. The crown looks like a croc. Interesting to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Can't really say much more about this root. Is the interior filling a fine sand with a binder? One more observation is that the ostensible pulp cavity is waaay too big for a mammal canine of this size; but, it is about right to match with the conical cavity of crocodilian tooth. I tweeked your image, Andy, to brighten the interior cross-section. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 Another expert has also told me that he believes this is a croc tooth attached to a fake root. I can't help but wonder though, was this tooth intentionally made in the likeness of a tiger canine? As far as I am aware, exceptionally large specimens of Siamese crocs and Tigers are the only large carnivores present in prehistoric Java. Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coelacanth Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) Honestly, it looks like a Gator or Croc tooth with a fake root attached. Don't take my word for it at all. That's just my impression. What did the seller say it was? I agree, it appears to be a badly faked mammal canine, in reality being a croc tooth with polished bone glued onto the base. First off, there is the large root cavity. Then, there is the filler apparentely inserted into the root of the tooth. Also, there are no plio-pleistocene cetaceans, pinnipeds or big cats with canines large enough to fit the bill from Java so far as I know. Granted, I do not know much about Java, but that is my conclusion from the limited amount of knowledge I have about that area. My advice to get proper identification is to contact paleontologists who have studied the vertebrate biota of plio-pleistocene Java, and ask them to examine the tooth. Edited September 9, 2014 by Coelacanth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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