Pennsylvanian Flora

[Rockaholic]

In addition to nodules I’ve found soft shale specimens at the Indiana spoil pile location that I’ve been hunting. The shale contains poorly preserved carbon imprints of what I’ll call floral hash plates with its abundance of plant material. I’ve let some of these shale pieces weather on my deck and over time very thin lamina separate. This piece has me curious wondering if this Is this plant material preserved in a minimally altered state and if so, is this a specimen that should be kept and preserved? If it should be preserved how would this best be done?

[tmaier]

It looks like a calamites stem.

Does not look right, that it should still have some organic material... should be all converted to carbon by now.

When you poke at the loose end with a toothpick, does it flex like organic plant material?

I've had intrusive plant material into spoils piles before; roots and leaves that have become adhered to the shale. This is not obviously a foriegn intruder, and does look like part of the original deposit.

Baffled... never seen that before.

Edited August 7, 2014 by tmaier

[Auspex]

I call that kind of stuff "mulch", and the preservation in yours is intriguing!

I'll echo the question; is it flexible?

[Mattalic]

Just a thought... If it's truly not an intruder, and still somewhat soft or oddly preserved, you should probably save every bit of it and consider going to an academic lab. There's been many papers announcing and subsequently questioning fossilization with preservation of organic material such as DNA. Most notably the announcement of preservation of Dino. DNA with critics questioning contamination of the samples.

[tmaier]

Auspex, have you seen something like this before?

I remember reading about leaf "fossils" from California that still had some organc content from I think the miocene? The report was that the material oxidized very quick soon after splitting the rock open.

I'm off the post office, be back soon...

[Auspex]

I can't tell from the images whether there is any organic material present. Given the apparent Carboniferous age of the material, I would be stunned if any remained. The 'sensible' assumption is that this is an example of extraordinary replacement preservation.

I would love to see this followed up!

[tmaier]

Well, organic materials test...

Break off a tiny piece and heat it up. If smoke comes off, it's likely organic. If it is mineral and carbon mixture, it should just glow a bit as the carbon becomes CO2.

[Rockaholic]

Thanks everyone for having a look.Heres a few more photos that might help.I lifted a small segment from the midsection with a toothpick. The material is very thin and brittle.Haven’t tried burning a piece yet.

[RyanNREMTP]

I would do whatever you can to preserve it.

[paleoflor]

Most, if not all, coals and associated rocks will contain macromolacular organic material. Whether this material still resembles (shows the details of) the plant material from which it was derived, depends on the degree of diagenesis (for coals: their rank). With metamorphosis of the organics (eventually creating carbon), the original molecular and cellular structure is progressively lost. The flaky appearance occurs more often in accumulations of plant debris, and I wonder whether it may actually be related to weathering. To me the presented fossil seems to be a very much flattened compression fossil, which perhaps has some of the cuticle preserved (Chapter 1 of Taylor et al. (2009), Paleobotany: the Biology and Evolution of Fossil Plants provides some interesting background). I will follow this thread with interest, however, in case this turns out to be something more special...

[Auspex]

This is really extraordinary!

Modern "scouring rushes" have a high silica content (hence the folk name for horsetail rush); I wonder whether this content might figure in this kind of preservation in rare circumstances?

[Rockaholic]

Just giving an update. Thanks to this thread I decided to further investigate cuticle fossils and found the Cuticle Database Project.I decided to contact one of the collaborators in the project and he showed an interest in this specimen. I’ll post any further information as it develops.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Rockaholic

[Auspex]

Very proactive; I salute your efforts!

[Rockaholic]

Very proactive; I salute your efforts!

Thanks for your encouraging post. The paleontologist who is interested in this piece wants to meet when he returns from China in a few weeks. I’m excited to see if this piece has any cellular detail after being prepped.

[Rockaholic]

Most, if not all, coals and associated rocks will contain macromolacular organic material. Whether this material still resembles (shows the details of) the plant material from which it was derived, depends on the degree of diagenesis (for coals: their rank). With metamorphosis of the organics (eventually creating carbon), the original molecular and cellular structure is progressively lost. The flaky appearance occurs more often in accumulations of plant debris, and I wonder whether it may actually be related to weathering. To me the presented fossil seems to be a very much flattened compression fossil, which perhaps has some of the cuticle preserved (Chapter 1 of Taylor et al. (2009), Paleobotany: the Biology and Evolution of Fossil Plants provides some interesting background). I will follow this thread with interest, however, in case this turns out to be something more special...

Thanks.Your post has inspired me to further investigate this piece.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Rockaholic

[paleoflor]

Thanks.Your post has inspired me to further investigate this piece.

So there might indeed be some cuticle preserved? That would be exciting! Congrats.

Please continue to give updates, these are very interesting developments.

[Rockaholic]

In the Fall of 2014 I had the privilege of meeting with David Dilcher, NAS, Dr. h.c. Emeritus Professor of Geology and Biology Indiana University to determine whether what I’d found was cuticle material. During our Email exchanges David mentioned that if this was cuticle material it was likely that material found in the same location may also contain cuticle material. During the summer of 2013 I spent some time retrieving material samples from a clay/soft shale deposit located on the slope of a spoil pile next to a pit. The deposit was fortunately preserved due to a large boulder that rested on top of it compressing the clay and protecting it from the weather. When the material was removed from the deposit it was very fragile but by setting the specimens on top of the boulder and letting them bake in the sun the material hardened and I was able to collect about 2 or3 five gallon buckets of the hardened material. Later that summer I returned to this location and unfortunately the deposit had been pulverized by heavy equipment during the reclamation process. I was able to find a couple of specimens in the 5 gallon buckets that looked like they might contain cuticle material and brought them to Bloomington Indiana when I meet with David.

Under microscopic observation David confirmed that all of these specimens did contain cuticle material encrusted with microcrystalline pyrite. Under the microscope and with David’s guidance the impressions of cell walls were visable.One of David’s scientific pursuits has been to find fossil evidence of early flowering plants. He was interviewed on a Nova documentary entitled “First Flower”. When I returned from Bloomington I was able to watch this documentary on YouTube and would recommend it to anyone who has an interest in Paleontology

Edited March 29, 2015 by Rockaholic

[Auspex]

Extraordinary material!

[Rockaholic]

Extraordinary material!

I only wish I could have collected more of the material before it was lost to reclamation.