Hipockets Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Stopped by my favorite pit on the way home today and found what I think is my first bird bone ?The small end is about 3/16 and hollow. Late cretaceous, Pee Dee formation. Any info would be appreciated.Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rejd Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Nice find. It looks bird like to me but I am no expert. I am sure Auspex will be along shortly to help out. Maybe a pic of the broken end to see how thin the bone is might help. Thanks for sharing. A fossil hunter needs sharp eyes and a keen search image, a mental template that subconsciously evaluates everything he sees in his search for telltale clues. -Richard E. Leakey http://prehistoricalberta.lefora.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipockets Posted September 11, 2014 Author Share Posted September 11, 2014 Thanks, I will try to post that additional view this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipockets Posted September 11, 2014 Author Share Posted September 11, 2014 (edited) some additional info on the bone, the wall thickness is about 1mm, the ID is about 3.5mm, the OD at the small end is about 5.5mm. Its about 50 mm long. Edited September 11, 2014 by Hipockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I'm not aware of Cretaceous bird material being found in NC. If this is bird and it is from the Peedee, it would be an important find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 what Al said; and also there is the possibility of it being a pterosaur bone, Auspex may be able to rule this out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 I am waiting with baited breath on this one. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Sweet! It's the distal end of an avian tibiotarsus. It has the structures of a bird whose lifestyle did not involve much walking (the lateral and mesial condyles are square to one another and even in size, and the supratendinal bridge is not inclined. Dating it confidently is going to be important. 1 "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipockets Posted September 11, 2014 Author Share Posted September 11, 2014 Thanks auspex...I guess the sp. will never be known ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Thanks auspex...I guess the sp. will never be known ? A researcher with a good comparative collection at their disposal might get to family, or even cf it to genus, but the status of avian taxonomy is cluttered with names assigned to single bits, and I suspect that most are nomen dubium that have taken on a life of their own. Get this one to a pro! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 Good paper on Late Cretaceous/Early Paleocene birds in the latest issue of the DVPS Mosasaur. Have a copy at my place hipockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike from North Queensland Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Nice Find Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptychodus04 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Awesome find!! Very delicate specimen. The tibiotarsus from Flexomornis that I collected is much more robust, one of the reasons for the roadrunner like reconstruction. I agree with Auspex, accurate dating is a must. What is the range of the Pee Dee formation? Regards, Kris Global Paleo Services, LLC https://globalpaleoservices.com http://instagram.com/globalpaleoservices http://instagram.com/kris.howe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 What is the range of the Pee Dee formation? The PeeDee is late Cretaceous, Maastrichtian. Aprox 65 - 68 mya Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Did this come from Pee Dee matrix, without doubt? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-remanié Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The taphonomic state leads me to believe that this is more likely a Pleistocene or more recent bone than being from the PeeDee. We know those quarries have plenty of pleistocene fossils. I doubt that a bird bone would make it into one of the high energy lags in the NC late Cretaceous, especially when Al Dente notes that Cretaceous bird bone has not been found in the state. Total supposition here of course.... Obviously best to get some sort of confirmation. 1 ---Wie Wasser schleift den Stein, wir steigen und fallen--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipockets Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 Hey guys this was found in a very small private pit, it was mixed in with flemingostrea subspatulata and exogyra spinosa ( when I say mixed in, it was lying in slab layer of those ) . Have made contact with Dr. James at Smithsonian ,and working from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Hey guys this was found in a very small private pit, it was mixed in with flemingostrea subspatulata and exogyra spinosa ( when I say mixed in, it was lying in slab layer of those ) . Have made contact with Dr. James at Smithsonian ,and working from there. Excellent! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The taphonomic state leads me to believe that this is more likely a Pleistocene or more recent bone than being from the PeeDee. We know those quarries have plenty of pleistocene fossils. I doubt that a bird bone would make it into one of the high energy lags in the NC late Cretaceous, especially when Al Dente notes that Cretaceous bird bone has not been found in the state. Total supposition here of course.... Obviously best to get some sort of confirmation. know where you're coming from non-rem but there is no lag at the pit, very odd that a bird bone hasn't been found in the NC cretaceous but non-lag would be where I'd expect a well preserved one, the fact that the echinoids still have their spines and the starfish are complete points to almost lagerstatte preservation at this pit, the same member of the Peedee has produced complete Avitelmessus with limbs attached and a single three dimensional pterosaur bone, not all the quarries around here have Pleistocene but many do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The taphonomic state leads me to believe that this is more likely a Pleistocene or more recent bone than being from the PeeDee. We know those quarries have plenty of pleistocene fossils. I doubt that a bird bone would make it into one of the high energy lags in the NC late Cretaceous, especially when Al Dente notes that Cretaceous bird bone has not been found in the state. Total supposition here of course.... Obviously best to get some sort of confirmation as Hipockets and Plax both stated this is a small pit that provides excellent preservation. This pit produced back to back invertebrate fossils of the month in August and September of 2013. I have seen no evidence of any Pleistocene material from there at any time. I am really looking forward to the end result of this bone. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The site sounds 'clean'; I am officially excited at the prospects! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-remanié Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 (edited) Thank you for the clarification on the geology of this pit. Do you guys find any vertebrate fossils in this pit? Edited September 18, 2014 by non-remanié ---Wie Wasser schleift den Stein, wir steigen und fallen--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPlainPetrified Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Nice...nice find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Thank you for the clarification on the geology of this pit. Do you guys find any vertebrate fossils in this pit? A few fish and shark teeth. Not a lot of it. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-remanié Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) I think I am going to stick with my initial impression. And I really do hope to be proven wrong!!! But to me, this bone looks water-worn and somewhat abraded, which would signify mechanical transport. I dont have the bone in my hands and the pictures could be somewhat better, but if those observations are at all correct; then how would a fragile bird bone like this be transported and end up in sediments such as are described from the pit? If the bird bone did not look rounded and water-worn there would be no leap of logic to conclude that a bird bone would end up in these sediments, just as the Pterosaur bone must have. Of course many unusual scenarios are able to be imagined, but I still feel that it is more likely that it came from another layer; perhaps that is just a different layer of PeeDee than the one with near lagerstatte invertebrate preservation. Still more likely is that it somehow got mixed in from more recent surficial deposits. Auspex can not ID the bone and barring a positive ID by an expert on Cretaceous birds, all we have to go on is taphonomic state and that is solely what I am basing my opinion on here. I feel like there is a big discrepancy between the taphonomic state of this bone and the comments about the stratigraphy of the site. Of course, all speculation, and I admit a signicant degree of non-confidence in my opinion. But I think the bone will be shown to not be cretaceous in origin. The collector does not state that the bone was found in situ, but rather "laying upon" a slab of in situ material. I have not collected an abundance of bird bones from marine deposits, but I have collected some and seen a decent amount of others. None of those bones seem to show signs of transport such as this specimen does, to my untrained eyes. Good luck! I do hope that I am incorrect. I know the fossil record is often unpredictable and surprising. Edited September 20, 2014 by non-remanié ---Wie Wasser schleift den Stein, wir steigen und fallen--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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