Auspex Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Aside from being broken (common enough for bird bones), I don't really see that this one has been treated that harshly. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-remanié Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 Overall the bone is in good shape, I completely agree. But the broken edge looks rounded to me. That is not what I was expect to see. To end up in a marine deposit, especially one with such special preservation potential, it would most likely be a carcass that floated and then became disarticulated and fell to the sea floor and was buried and fossilized. For the rounding, one would expect that the bone was originally deposited in a higher energy environment, eg close to shore or on land. Those two scenarios, and the description of the pit sediments and depositional history, just don't add up without evoking very unusual scenarios. Not trying to rain on anyone's parade or be negative, just trying to apply some principles and test their usefulness in determinations like these. Hopefully we will have a concrete answer soon. Aside from being broken (common enough for bird bones), I don't really see that this one has been treated that harshly. ~.JPG ---Wie Wasser schleift den Stein, wir steigen und fallen--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 With the way I parade my innate skepticism on these boards, I am not about to criticize your clearly reasoned caution. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipockets Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 Thanks for all the input and keeping this interesting. I don't see the roundage spoken of on the broken end, I would say it is jagged , sharp and serrated . The posted pictures are not that great and I will try to locate a camera with better macro and get posted as soon as I can. I am not experienced enough in identifying "equipment transported material " ( no tire tracks across it) I do understand what your saying and as anyone in my shoes would , I have to keep hope, and at the same time welcome all opinions. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 The photographs just are not adequate to say definitely if there is rounding of the broken edges or not. Other than that one fact, the bones looks to me identical to the isolated, partial bird bones I've found in the Cretaceous greensands of New Jersey. http://www.sil.si.edu/smithsoniancontributions/Paleobiology/pdf_hi/SCtP-0063.pdf 1 The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipockets Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 Thanks Rich for posting that link..I didn't have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Thank you for the clarification on the geology of this pit. Do you guys find any vertebrate fossils in this pit? vertebrate fossils were extremely rare at this site initially. Like most of the sites in the Castle Hayne and Peedee though vertebrate finds increase with sediment exposure time. Everything vertebrate is naturally encrusted with epis and mineral crusts in these non lag situations. After exposure to weathering the crusts and epis are gone exposing the vertebrate remains. There are of course lags within the Castle hayne and at the top and bottom of the Peedee where vertebrate remains are abundant (and worn). Another good analogy is the early Pleistocene Waccamaw Formation. To virtually all collectors this is a shell deposit and vertebrate remains are rarely found. However, once the material is dumped onto driveways and driven over vertebrate remains become apparent. The same can be said for the terra rosa clay above the shell bed where the shells have been dissolved away. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
non-remanié Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 with the epis, etc, it sounds like bioerosion could definitely account for what I perceived as transport in this case. vertebrate fossils were extremely rare at this site initially. Like most of the sites in the Castle Hayne and Peedee though vertebrate finds increase with sediment exposure time. Everything vertebrate is naturally encrusted with epis and mineral crusts in these non lag situations. After exposure to weathering the crusts and epis are gone exposing the vertebrate remains. There are of course lags within the Castle hayne and at the top and bottom of the Peedee where vertebrate remains are abundant (and worn). Another good analogy is the early Pleistocene Waccamaw Formation. To virtually all collectors this is a shell deposit and vertebrate remains are rarely found. However, once the material is dumped onto driveways and driven over vertebrate remains become apparent. The same can be said for the terra rosa clay above the shell bed where the shells have been dissolved away. ---Wie Wasser schleift den Stein, wir steigen und fallen--- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipockets Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 here are some better detailed photos,.......compliments of plax.....thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike from North Queensland Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 With that clean a break look for the other end Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 Good point Mike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipockets Posted September 24, 2014 Author Share Posted September 24, 2014 oh, I did. Got the screen and shovel out and worked some areas around it. I went back through the area after a good rain. I follow up on that area every time we go. Maybe it will turn up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipockets Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 Almost 2 years later I have an ID ! I donated the bone to the Smithsonian 8 months ago and today I was rewarded with the long awaited decision. Dr. Storrs Olson and Dr. Hans Dieter Sues have agreed it is a distal femur , Enaliornithidae ! Pretty rare for this parts from what I have been told.Hats off to these guys and Dave Bohaska who kept me informed. Does anyone have any info or references on these birds ? There is not a lot of info on the web. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bones Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Congratulations, Hipockets! Way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 pretty exciting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) you MIGHT consult Stephenson for the oysters,Hipocket (USGS prof. paper 81,available online) Edited April 21, 2016 by doushantuo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan from PA Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Congratulations! Amazing find! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Congratulations on the ID. You may want to check out the book Mesozoic Birds: Above the head of Dinosaurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squali Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Great job on the donation! Thanks for update. It's hard to remember why you drained the swamp when your surrounded by alligators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Almost 2 years later I have an ID ! I donated the bone to the Smithsonian 8 months ago and today I was rewarded with the long awaited decision. Dr. Storrs Olson and Dr. Hans Dieter Sues have agreed it is a distal femur , Enaliornithidae ! Pretty rare for this parts from what I have been told.Hats off to these guys and Dave Bohaska who kept me informed. Does anyone have any info or references on these birds ? There is not a lot of info on the web. Thanks Outstanding! If you'd care to post this in the Paleo Partners' Gallery <LINK>, we have some bling for your profile "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike from North Queensland Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Congratulations on conformation of such a rare find. Mike D'Arcy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipockets Posted April 21, 2016 Author Share Posted April 21, 2016 Thanks Everyone, Not too pleasant to the eye, but probably my most significant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Awesome my friend. I am stoked for you!!! Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hipockets Posted April 22, 2016 Author Share Posted April 22, 2016 Thanks Don . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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