Plantguy Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) Hey Gang, looking for some more ID help. In my latest trip I picked up a few chunks of bone and some sharkteeth and I'm wondering if any of you recognize the two partial bones? Manatee County, Florida, probably Plio-Pleistocene. Unknown#1 Regards, Chris Edited September 12, 2014 by Plantguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted September 12, 2014 Author Share Posted September 12, 2014 Unknown #2 Any help will be appreciated. Thanks! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Your first "Y" shaped piece looks like a well worn vertebrae spine. It's a pretty big one, but im not sure who it belonged to. Im not sure about the others. ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Don't you have any easy ones, Chris? I think the first bone is the proximal head of a fibula. Beyond that, it is just too obscure for me. The second appears to be crocodilian . . . from the back of the skull or mandible. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Isn't the top bilaterally symmetrical bone a sirenian neural arch with broken spine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted September 12, 2014 Author Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the looks and the ideas to consider....I'm way out of my element with vertebrates and I know I'm not giving you all much to work with! If everyone would stop leaving me the scraps I'd be doing a bit better. Hi Harry, in amongst the crumbs I did find this more complete group in the last week. I know you do horse...can you confirm posterior Equus in the lower left? and what about Tigers. The one tooth in top right looks a bit different.... EDIT trying to fix the photo file that is apparently corrupt and not viewing correctly---IRFANVIEW aint happy with me and is for some reason distorting colors...Just reinstalled...Hope this works...nope....hmmm... Well, this problem is apparently getting worse...one more try with some other photos Regards, Chris Edited September 12, 2014 by Plantguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) No, I don't see the bilateral symmetry, Bobby. Chris . . . I believe that the tooth is a right p2 m3 from Equus. See pp.297 in Hulbert's book. Edited September 21, 2014 by Harry Pristis http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpevahouse Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 The first bone looks like a well worn vertebrae with a later break. The horse molar is indeed the lower molar of a horse but I'm not so sure it's equus, possibly earlier. The lower teeth can be harder to ID than the upper molars with more distinct enamel ridges. Reference attached image of Miocene horse tooth Gallery image courtesy of Harry Pristis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Your shark tooth is a Galeocerdo mayumbensis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Hey Chris , I have a couple pieces of gator mandible similar to the piece you found. Remind me next time we're out and I'll bring them to compare: ) Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted September 12, 2014 Author Share Posted September 12, 2014 Your shark tooth is a Galeocerdo mayumbensis Thanks troodon! Jeff was thinking the same thing earlier even with the poor picture I sent to him! Poor guy, I bother him with quite a bit of unidentifiable fragments. Thanks to you both! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted September 12, 2014 Author Share Posted September 12, 2014 Hey Chris , I have a couple pieces of gator mandible similar to the piece you found. Remind me next time we're out and I'll bring them to compare: ) Thanks Jeff, will do...maybe next week we'll get together and I can compare....creek up this way?? Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted September 12, 2014 Author Share Posted September 12, 2014 Isn't the top bilaterally symmetrical bone a sirenian neural arch with broken spine? No, I don't see the bilateral symmetry, Bobby. Chris . . . I believe that the tooth is a right p2 from Equus. See pp.297 in Hulbert's book. Bobby/Harry, I tried to take some shots of the ends. Wish we had that 3d modeling tools shown at the TB fossil club mtg last week and could use that to pivot this thing around in space. The bone is pretty beaten up but I agree I dont think there is symmetry there. The first bone looks like a well worn vertebrae with a later break. The horse molar is indeed the lower molar of a horse but I'm not so sure it's equus, possibly earlier. The lower teeth can be harder to ID than the upper molars with more distinct enamel ridges. Reference attached image of Miocene horse tooth I'll, have to get Hulburt's book soon....have been putting it off and will compare with your photo.... Thanks again guys! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) You have to have Hulbert's book . . . sell a few fossils, buy a used copy (if you can find one), but get one. And, when you have your own copy, you will see that your p2 m3 Equus tooth doesn't compare well with an m3 Calippus tooth. Edited September 21, 2014 by Harry Pristis http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted September 12, 2014 Author Share Posted September 12, 2014 You have to have Hulbert's book . . . sell a few fossils, buy a used copy (if you can find one), but get one. And, when you have your own copy, you will see that your p2 Equus tooth doesn't compare well with an m3 Calippus tooth. Thanks Harry, will do so. Earlier in the year at the TB club's mtg I was asking for advice for a dweeb like myself starting out with verts what to get started with and I purchased Frank A Kocsis Jr's " Vertebrate Fossils: A Neophyte's Guide". I think it has served me well and has lots of so so to decent pictures and I've learned alot but having a better reference would help more. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 When it comes to teeth, particularly horse teeth, there is nothing better than line-drawings; and, the book is loaded with professionally-done line-drawings. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted September 13, 2014 Share Posted September 13, 2014 (edited) Thanks Chris, I'll definitely make it up there to "help" you rid that creek of those pesky fossils lol Edited September 13, 2014 by jcbshark Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 No, I don't see the bilateral symmetry, Bobby. Chris . . . I believe that the tooth is a right p2 from Equus. See pp.297 in Hulbert's book. Hi Harry, thanks. I used my birthday money and the book is on its way--thanks for the recommendation. Well, against better judgement I went back to the creek in spite of heavy rains and jumped into the same hole I was in when I found this horse tooth. The water was a bit deeper to say the least and dark but I came away with another horse tooth. Here are both in photos together and the one on the bottom is the new tooth. I think based on your gallery photos its a deciduous tooth? Is it possible to determine its position as well? The roots appear to have been absorbed or broken off---can a age of the animal be determined by seeing this tooth? The preservation colors and lack of wear seem to be very similar in each tooth at least to me....It would certainly be nice to see them in the same jaw but is there a remote chance based on their condition and type that they could be from the same animal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 I think these are from the opposite ends of the tooth row . . . the newest find appears to be a p2 while the earlier find (above) is an m3. My bad in the earlier mis-call. Good image (just a bit too much thumb). 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 I think these are from the opposite ends of the tooth row . . . the newest find appears to be a p2 while the earlier find (above) is an m3. My bad in the earlier mis-call. Good image (just a bit too much thumb). Thanks Harry--good point, I'll try to watch the thumbs next time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 For comparison: 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 Thanks again Harry, I guess I need to go back into the hole to see if I can find some more of that critter when the water goes down a bit... Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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