caldigger Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I brought some silt blocks home to dissolve from my last trip and was amazed to find this little skull inside one of the blocks of silt stone from the east quarry. It was not the least bit visible on the surface. It looks to be a very small rodent skull, but of what I do not know and therefore look to the expertise of our fellow forum members. Round Mountain Silt Formation, middle Miocene (15 MYO) Ernst Quarries (East) found October 10th. Please excuse the photos, taken with a point and shoot camera with a 7X loupe over the lens. Thank you, caldigger Couple more pics in the next text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 Cont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bones Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 What neat little skull, caldigger. I hope someone can I'd it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Looks like a geomyid rodent - the question is, is it really a Miocene fossil, or something much more recent? The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kauffy Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Agreed pocket gopher...looks fairly recent to me, perhaps he was tunnelling for shark teeth when he met an untimely demise? "Turn the fear of the unknown into the excitment of possibility!"We dont stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 I am seriously doubting it could be recent. It came out of a solid block chiseled from the wall in the bone layer. No holes or soft spots to indicate recent burrowing. Also the matrix was bonded to it quite strongly. It took a bit of gentle scrubbing with a brush to clear out the openings and it still has matrix wedged far into the cavities. In my opinion it was buried while the matrix (silt) was still soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I'm leaning towards it being Miocene. There are no rodents reported yet from the Round Mountain Silt, as far as I know. This specimen really ought to be examined by a vertebrate paleontologist who works on rodents. It could be a very important find. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 I live in Paso Robles, CA. anyone know of an institution close by that could look at it? It's mostly an ag. town and I don't know of any museums in the area or the right kind of college that would have a paleontology dept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Hi Rich, Yes, I was going to say the same thing - no rodent specimens known from anywhere in the Round Mountain Silt. Small animals would be very unlikely to float out to sea and then get buried fast enough before rotting away or getting scavenged in one gulp. William Korth has published on Barstovian rodents before. He would be someone to send photos to. Here's an article he co-wrote recently: http://www.academia.edu/5084929/Rodents_and_Lagomorphs_Mammalia_from_the_Hemphillian_Late_Miocene_of_Utahterms-and-conditions-of-access.pdf Jess I'm leaning towards it being Miocene. There are no rodents reported yet from the Round Mountain Silt, as far as I know. This specimen really ought to be examined by a vertebrate paleontologist who works on rodents. It could be a very important find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Caldigger, You can try contacting Don Prothero at Occidental College. He has studied and co-written articles on Sharktooth Hill (paleomagnetism, mammals) before. If rodents aren't his thing, he should be able to suggest someone to send it to. Jess I live in Paso Robles, CA. anyone know of an institution close by that could look at it? It's mostly an ag. town and I don't know of any museums in the area or the right kind of college that would have a paleontology dept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boesse Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I am seriously doubting it could be recent. It came out of a solid block chiseled from the wall in the bone layer. No holes or soft spots to indicate recent burrowing. Also the matrix was bonded to it quite strongly. It took a bit of gentle scrubbing with a brush to clear out the openings and it still has matrix wedged far into the cavities. In my opinion it was buried while the matrix (silt) was still soft. I initially doubted that it would be fossil, but given this information I believe you. In theory a rodent could make a burrow into the rock, but there would have been an obvious void filled with its poor little skeleton and softer sediment. This could be really important! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 I have contacted Donald Prothero via his website...am awaiting a reply. Crossing fingers here! Thank you for your assistance and swift replies. This forum site is the best. Caldigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Please give an update when you hear anything. Welcome to the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triceratops Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Cool! Maybe soon we'll have an update in the fossil donations to science topic... -Lyall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share Posted October 27, 2014 I have also contacted UC Berkeley and the Raymond Alf Museum. The Alf Museum is currently studying the photos now. Yes, if it is an important find, I will definitely donate to research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Very cool! Congrats sir! I too had doubt that this was mineralized. I am a long time skull collector, and it looks so new. But it could just be that awesomely preserved! Can't wait for an update. ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rejd Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Wow, cool find. Can't wait to see what they say. A fossil hunter needs sharp eyes and a keen search image, a mental template that subconsciously evaluates everything he sees in his search for telltale clues. -Richard E. Leakey http://prehistoricalberta.lefora.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 Well my latest quest is taking foot. Apparently, not too many institutions deal with fossil rodents so I have been referred by a professor at UC Berkeley to find information in the nearby state of Oregon. University of Oregon Eugene and with the lead paleontologist at the John Day fossil beds. The feelers are out...just waiting on a word from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 Well I finally have an update to the rodent skull mystery. I have just gotten a response from Dr. Hopkins from University of Oregon and her colleague has Identified it as a Phaleosaccomys ( a middle Miocene age gopher ). At the present time we are arranging for it to be donated for scientific study. Yah!!! I'll let you know the final destination when she gets back with me. caldigger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanNREMTP Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 That's great to hear. Thank you for the update and the contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Outstanding! When you have the salient details, please make a post in the Partners/Contributions thread: LINK Any speculation as to how this little guy wound up in the Shark Tooth Hill sediments? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Congrats! Neat little critter. Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bones Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 That is so cool, caldigger! Fantastic find and outcome. Julianna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 A very important find, first rodent from the fauna! Congratulations, and kudos to you for donating it so it can be studied and published. Rich The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Well I finally have an update to the rodent skull mystery. I have just gotten a response from Dr. Hopkins from University of Oregon and her colleague has Identified it as a Phaleosaccomys ( a middle Miocene age gopher ). At the present time we are arranging for it to be donated for scientific study. Yah!!! I'll let you know the final destination when she gets back with me. caldigger Congratulations! Hopefully, they will start the research soon. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now