Axelorox Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 For years I was always under the impression that the polished ammonites from Madagascar tend to be authentic given the difficulty in faking the sutures compared to the commonness. However, as I search eBay for ammonites in the past few weeks, the results are overwhelmed with cheap Madagascan ammonites from Chinese sellers. They look authentic, but the mass quantity and low prices on them are a bit fishy. Anyone have any insight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrannosaurusRex Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Well to tell you the truth, I believe that most of the ammonites are real. With so many coming out of Madagascar, there is no reason to go through the time consuming process when you can sell the real thing. The main fossils on ebay that I am worried about are the turtles, birds, and dinosaur teeth. Do not get anything unless it is from a reputable dealer that has good reviews. It's not worth the risk. So many common fossils are being sold today as rare items when they aren't. The ammonites from around that area are very common. But still if you see one that is a rarer species, my advice would be wait you can go to a rock shop or a show where you can see the item firsthand. I hope this helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painshill Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) They come out of Madagascar in huge quantities. You can buy them in bulk direct from the main source area in SW Madagascar at around $50 dollars per kilo as top-grade specimens and less than half that for second-grade. Probably cheaper still if you ordered in very large quantities. The Chinese sellers are simply buying in bulk and reselling individually for a profit. They come ready polished as whole specimens or as cut and polished pairs at those kinds of prices. I believe it's actually prohibited (or at least an export licence wouldn't be granted) to ship them out of Madagascar in any other form, which I suspect is to protect local industry rather than protect any palaeontological value. Edited November 21, 2014 by painshill Roger I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew);Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who [Rudyard Kipling] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 It certainly doesn't protect any paleo value... I have heard that too about Madagascar exports.. but the 'added value' can be as simple as a squared-off aperture - a laborer is employed but to me it's still a marred specimen, and I would rather wait for one without any processing (I have a few, they do sneak out somehow!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I looked around and asked around for several years trying to get specimens that were not 'worked' on but never was able to find any. I did find some dino bones from Madagascar that were left alone. That was cool. RB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Try ebay, they do exist, you just have to wade thru all the worked ones to find them. I haven't ever seen a 'perfect' specimen with complete aperture etc, but the fact that they aren't worked on is something at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortmegan Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I live in Madagascar and I've been buying ammonites for $2-30 each. I'm very new to fossil collecting and buying, so right now I'm just purchasing ones that "look neat" to me. My understanding of the law is that you can export processed fossils (and gemstones, and rosewood) but not the raw product. It's an attempt to add value to the local market. You can go to the markets and find hundreds of ammonites, so my guess is that the Chinese dealers have just purchased many in quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I live in Madagascar and I've been buying ammonites for $2-30 each. I'm very new to fossil collecting and buying, so right now I'm just purchasing ones that "look neat" to me. My understanding of the law is that you can export processed fossils (and gemstones, and rosewood) but not the raw product. It's an attempt to add value to the local market. You can go to the markets and find hundreds of ammonites, so my guess is that the Chinese dealers have just purchased many in quantity. As I mentioned, there are a few that don't appear to have any "value" added (no work done on them)... How do these get out, do you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitch1979 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 megan, send me a msg, I can prolly get you some good literature for the ammonites (for some at least the references I bet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortmegan Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 (edited) As I mentioned, there are a few that don't appear to have any "value" added (no work done on them)... How do these get out, do you know?Well, the "law" says that they must have a bit of work done (is my understanding at least), but I also understand that smuggling is a big problem. Rosewood, tortoises, gems, and all sorts of other things are smuggled (often to Asia) so I would suspect that fossils would be in the same category. Not speaking from any direct knowledge,but just my opinion, of course. Edited December 5, 2014 by Shortmegan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painshill Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 Smuggling (although risky) has been endemic for years in Madagascar – particularly sapphires, since more than half the world supply comes from the island. The government “relaxed” the rules somewhat in November 2005, such that foreigners could legitimately trade certain items via offices at its international airports. In theory, any non-resident could then obtain a “purchaser’s card” at airports or government offices (for $100 and valid for 6 months) which allowed them to export precious stones, semi-precious stones, ammonites, fossilized wood and Malagasy precious metals. These items had to be declared at a special counter and a tax of 2% was levied on the value (except for cut stones, including ammonites). The government regulations are theoretically designed to protect an industry made up mostly of small-scale, artisanal miners, many of them illiterate peasants risking their lives in dangerous conditions for low pay. It was a pilot scheme, and I’m not sure whether it is still in operation, but in practice, those in the trade said that the amount of red tape was stifingly beaurocratic and excessively inconvenient. They objected more to the red-tape than the cost. The American dealer Tom Cushman commented: “They say you need a business visa but you can't get one at the airport. Many countries don't have Malagasy embassies, so what do they expect will happen?” Roger I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew);Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who [Rudyard Kipling] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 2% doesn't sound like much, but red tape can stifle, for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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