lizardE Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 I am new to collecting fossils. Can someone tell me if this is genuine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizardE Posted December 6, 2014 Author Share Posted December 6, 2014 And these.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizardE Posted December 6, 2014 Author Share Posted December 6, 2014 one more.. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 They look real to me, but poorly prepped. Regards, Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 I am concerned by the lack of details around the eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snolly50 Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 TRILOBITES Try the helpful link above. Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaforth Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 They look real to me but Moroccan trilobites are often very hefty repaired and or reconstructed. Not a problem if you dont mind that but that is one of the reason I dont collect those. Moroccan trilobites are often severly damaged during the extraction process due to the very hard matrix they are in which requires lots of repairs afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Breakin' Rocks Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 These are real ... but I've been told that the locals help with the prepping using hammers nails and rough metal picks .... thus the crude marks you see around these fossils. The fossils are usually heavily damaged and 'repaired' .... If you are ever down in Tuscon for the gem and mineral show you can find dealers from Morocco that deviate from the norm and have them prepped with air scribes etc ... You won't pay much more either. I was able to find a good dealer a few years back and bring back some great looking bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmoceras Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 (edited) I still don’t like them. Could these be air bubbles? They are inconsistent with prep marks as the colour in the holes is not white like the colour of prep marks as they dig into the matrix. I would try a bit of acetone on the trilobite and see if the colour goes. If anyone else has noticed, it looks like all of these trilobites are on the same slab - in the background you can see dark shapes which look like other specimens. Can you show a photo of the whole slab, as we can only see photos of the individual trilobites at the moment. Associations are commonly faked. Edited December 7, 2014 by Kosmoceras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizardE Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Kosmoceras, Thank you for taking the time to take such a close look. I truly appreciate it. It looked like possible air bubbles through a magnifying glass, and I did not see compound eyes either. You are correct, they are part of a bowl - I have attached the picture here. The shop insists that all but the center is real. From what I have read on sites I have my doubts. I am happy to have found this forum of those knowledgeable on the subject. What will happen to the color if I put acetone on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Breakin' Rocks Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Yeah, those assemblages are suspicious and raise huge red flags. The more closely I look at these with the lack of detail I agree with Kosmoceras. Here is more in-depth info on Moraccan fakes :http://www.fossilmuseum.net/collect/faketrilobites3.htm The primitive technique in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubigBTAMKaw A tad better, a bigger operation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqmX-0YEbjk Cheers, Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Breakin' Rocks Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Here are two Trilobites from Morocco for comparison: Paralejurus and Phacops. You can see the natural color of the specimens and the matrix. I won't say that these are amazing but to me they are beautiful. You can see where they nicked the Phacops with the air scribes and it's cephalon got smashed so the repair work is evident. Most trilos will show this kind of damage where the hammer fell on the rock and splits it right across the body giving the person hunting for them a hint of what lies inside ... The Paralejurus is even more evident with a sharp break in the matrix and across the body .... notice the surface detail and texture. The lenses in the eyes are small on him so they don't show so well in the photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 At the Tucson fossil show there are tents with assemblages similar to the one you have. I would be very suspicious that yours is fabricated. Acetone should remove any paint that has been added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painshill Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I fear that Kosmoceras is right. I have seen dozens of those bowls and have never seen a genuine one. I don't believe genuine ones exist. In all cases, the attractive arrangement of fossils within them is, I believe, achieved by insetting into non-original or false matrix. The trilobites used (within a given bowl) seem to be a mixture of authentic specimens, heavily restored partially authentic specimens and completely fake resin casts. Roger I keep six honest serving-men (they taught me all I knew);Their names are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who [Rudyard Kipling] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoDirect Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 LizardE, all the trilobites you show in your original posts are fake. They are made by grinding up the host rock limestone and mixing with fiberglass resin to create a "bondo" of sorts but it matches the rock exactly, when dry, when not colored. A latex skin mold, taken from a real trilobite, is then colored black inside and then the putty and rock mixture is pressed into the rubber mold only where the trilobite depression is, holding it face up like a bowl. The mold is then turned over and pressed onto a partially prepared piece of limestone rock from the same quarry where the real trilobites are found. The mold is peeled off when cured and a pneumatic scribe is used to blend the joint all around the trilobite where the fake bug meets the real rock base. In your photos, you can see some of the darkened high areas around the chiseled rock surrounding the trilobite where the rock is darkened from the residue of the resin from sloppy work pressing the rubber mold onto the rock. The pneumatic scribe is also used to "prepare" the various anatomy of the trilobite such as the segments, main body components, all in an attempt to replicate a real prepared trilobite. The black coloring soaked into the uncured resin so it is partially in the trilobite, giving a somewhat natural look but the very small chisel marks around the base of the bug is one of the many clues. Here, they had to make many extra small marks not normally needed, to disguise all the putty around the border of the fake trilobite. You will also see microscopic air bubbles either to the naked eye or with a loupe in this perimeter and possibly, in the body of the trilobites. The "water-worn" look and lack of crisp detail is a result of a worn mold being used. Even a horribly prepared REAL trilobite of these, will have some crisp details and evidence of a calcitic carapace. Take a hot soldering iron and press it into the body of any or all of these, you will be disappointed at the results. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleoDirect Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 btw, the second post with the "trilobite pizza" of 5 bugs is also fake, made in the same way. Some of these are made with real bugs but some are total fakes. I cannot tell from your photo, if the 4 on the outside are real but for sure, the center spiny one is. It is made the same way as your others. If you got them at the same shop, chances are, the only thing real is the rock base. The cheapest spiny trilobites are faked this way by many, many small cuts in the rock all round the trilobite and in the spines with a slight discoloration of the general region with regards to the main surrounding rock. I am surprised they are still doing this. It is the oldest fakery techniques in the book but I guess it still is fooling some. There are more sophisticated ways to make these trilobites, using resins that more correctly duplicate calcite. The spiny trilobites are faked this way. There are 3 price levels of spiny trilobites you can get in Morocco - total fakes, real with plastic or other stone spines artificially put on, and the real deal. The first two categories are really cheap, the last is very expensive if good quality. The all authentic spiny ones are not that expensive if they are not good quality or not prepared well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) If anyone else has noticed, it looks like all of these trilobites are on the same slab - in the background you can see dark shapes which look like other specimens. Can you show a photo of the whole slab, as we can only see photos of the individual trilobites at the moment. Associations are commonly faked. I totally missed the fact that they were all together on a " bowl "! My bad. Good catch, Thomas. That might have been good knowledge to have ahead of time, however. A picture of the whole thing at the outset might have avoided confusion. At least for me. I have a very poorly prepped Moroccan Crotalocephalus that is prepped in a similar fasion, which is why I thought they were individual specimens. I agree with all of the previous assesments now, ... knowing the origin of the individual trilobites. All of these pretty assemblages are fakes. I always wondered how trilobites and cephalopods learned how to "square dance" Regards, Edited December 9, 2014 by Fossildude19 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizardE Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) PaleoDirect.com, the Trilobites in the bowl, or "pizza" in my second post are the same ones in my original post. I just thought the up-close pictures were more useful than the distant picure of the bowl. Sorry if this caused some confusion. Thanks so much for all of your inputs on this. Unfortunately, it sounds like you are all in agreement that all the bugs are fake. I will follow up with the shop owner, who is still insisting they are authentic. Regards! Edited December 9, 2014 by lizardE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaforth Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Yes, seeing them in a bowl shape like that its obvious that they are fake. Such a shame that people sell this kind of stuff and foo many beginning collectors... Let us know how the follow up ended up Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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