Just Bob Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Is there anybody who watched this show that just aired on CNN Thursday night called "Dinosaur 13" that knows the details about this case? Was this documentary very accurate in the way it really happened? This documentary was good show but it left me with a lot of questions? Like why did the government get so involved that they sent so many FBI and national guards units? And why would they spend so much time and effort to prosecute the paleontologist for what seemed like nothing. There has to be more to this story that you just weren't getting. I would love to hear some other people's opinions on this. For the people who haven't heard it it's about the dinosaur named Sue and the people who found her. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." Upton Sinclair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I have the DVD on pre-order (should ship early January). It seems to be Hollywooded-up (no shock), and sculpted to enlarge the events a bit here and there to strengthen the conflict between "villian" (the gummint) and the "hero" (Pete & company). Score a copy of Pete's book "Rex Appeal" to help sort out some of the peripheral facts: LINK "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 I'd suggest the book as well. The story is complicated. Larson had permission from the rancher, but apparently the land was Indian Trust and so the rancher did not have mineral rights to give away but neither the rancher nor Larson knew that. One might think it could have been handled more civilly, since it seems clear that Larson's group had made an honest effort to gain permission and were stymied by very murky and convoluted land ownership issues. However, I think it's also clear the government decided to make an example of him, to send a message to the rest of the professional collector community. It also seems clear (to me) from the way they handled Sue that they (the government) were not really interested in the best custodianship of the specimen. Just my opinion of course. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 What Pete was ultimately convicted of had nothing to do with Sue, nor any of the original charges, and the judge used sentencing guidelines based on charges that he barred first-hand defense testimony about! Read the book; even allowing that it's skewed a bit by Pete's vested perspective, it will still blow your mind! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Whatever the "rest of the story" is there are some good lessons to be learned from the whole affair. Never assume a landowner is good for his word. Always do a thorough check of the regulations involving removal of material from a site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Fossildawg makes some good points in his reply. I know Pete and Neal personally and both have told me the tale of woe. What I do not understand (I did not see the show... No cnn here) is how Maurice Williams ended up with the rights to the specimen. Apparently he sold the right to collect it, but not the ownership? Why the FBI came down so hard is a power trip thing, if you ask me. I know a rancher in south dakota who lives next to a former military site. She tells me that Pete has collected on her place, and that he has also been seen walking around the ex military site, which is on Pierre shale and has mosasaurs. She is convinced that the Feds were after him for even just being on that land. That is one person's opinion, but it strongly believe that the Feds wanted to make an example of him/them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 I haven't seen the CNN show yet but I remember that NOVA had an hour long episode in 1997 about this case and the show was very good. I remember all the charges filed against Pete Larson and in the end he was only convicted of leaving the country with more than $10,000. At the time I didn't realize that was a crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paleoworld-101 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 I'll be watching this documentary on a plane flight soon (it's listed in the in-flight entertainment). Although I already have a general idea of what happened, it should still be interesting to see the specifics of what occurred and see how it all played out. "In Africa, one can't help becoming caught up in the spine-chilling excitement of the hunt. Perhaps, it has something to do with a memory of a time gone by, when we were the prey, and our nights were filled with darkness..." -Eternal Enemies: Lions And Hyenas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 According to the film Williams didn't want a contract and insisted on a hand-shake agreement. Then he could simply claim BHI had conned him, even though they pledged to keep Sue in their museum in town. I don't know if he was ever charged with selling her without permission from the government, but I think that was the Fed's excuse for confiscating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 ...the land was Indian Trust and so the rancher did not have mineral rights to give away but neither the rancher... If I remember the details correctly, mineral rights do not apply to fossils; this angle should not have been a factor. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 That's another bit of weirdness. Some judge decided since fossils were rocks, then they were minerals. Again, according to the film and my sketchy memory of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 This case is the case that decided that fossils are surface rights, not mineral rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelhead9 Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 It's a must see, although it is sickening. The fact that more agents descended on BHI than were used to arrest Jeffery Daumer pretty much sums up the government's attitude. Still Life Fossils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opisthotriton Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 The number of agents was related to the large volume of evidence they were confiscating, not the need to arrest Larson. The comparison to a raid on a dangerous criminal is not valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggieCie Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 It is 9:30 pm eastern and the show is on CNN now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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