DARALD Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 While exploring high glaciers in the wilderness I think I found a very very old grizzly bear tooth. Who should I contact to identify this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Try posting some pictures here. We have some extremely knowledgeable members here. Regards, Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtskinner Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Post up a few pictures...there are plenty of folks on here that can help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARALD Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Some trouble sending but will keep trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Alaska Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'm no expert, but that looks like a piece of bone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitbat Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I agree with Dave in Alaska...I'm not seeing evidence of enamel. It looks almost like a patella...though without knowing the size and seeing the 'back' side of the specimen I can't really be sure. -Joe Illigitimati non carborundum Fruitbat's PDF Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Could it be a tortoise spur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I don't see this being a tooth or tortoise spur. I would agree that this does resemble a worn patella. But I'm not 100%. ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 What are its dimensions, please? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 It seems to me to be a sesamoid of some sort. Without an idea of the size, I can't say more than that. I'm not comfortable with it being a patella (which is a sesamoid), but only for some vague, niggling reason that I can't really articulate. The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARALD Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 I found this at 8000 feet elevation in the wilderness. 18 miles from nearest lake. It was in a pass through the mountains, surrounded by 9000 foot peaks and glaciers. It is very lightweight. I put a quarter by each picture. Side view, front view, and back view. Has a very old feeling to it. It was found out in the pass with no trees around it. Thanks to all for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARALD Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Rich -- I was xray tech for 40 years so do have some experience with bones. This really has me puzzled. I wonder if it could have laid under a glacier for centuries. Only one spot has a smoothness to it that I wondered was remainder of enamel. I wonder if teeth can petrify, and how it would appear if it could. This was found in quite wet environment (basically rain forest type a few thousand feet below at the lake. Hard long snow covered winters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) It is not a tooth, Darald. Sesamoid is a reasonable guess, but it may be difficult to know with certainty what animal produced it. Comparative Variability ofIntermembranous and Endochondral Bones in Pleistocene Mammals Kristina R. Raymond and Donald R. Prothero Palaeo-Electronica (March 2010) "...[V]ariability due to different styles of growth between endochondral bones (which ossify directly from an embryonic cartilaginous precursor, often constrained by joints and articular surfaces) and less constrained intermembranous bones, is [relevant]. "The topic of intermembranous and endochondral bone growth, size and variability is one that is not commonly touched upon, except briefly in passing, in paleontological literature. Generally, intermembranous bones are measured and discussed as only a slightly relevant topic in regards to larger studies of species or interspecific variation and sexual size dimorphism. "Intermembranous bones form directly from the connective tissue late in embryological development and after birth through intramembranous ossification. Some intermembranous bones, such as the kneecap (patella), are almost always ossified in adult mammals (with minor exceptions). Other intermembranous bones, known as sesamoids, occur only in areas where a tendon passes over a joint, and ossify in irregular and unpredictable patterns (Vickaryous and Olson 2007) . "The number and shape of intermembranous bones vary greatly within the Mammalia, and are highly taxon-dependent. Humans have only one sesamoid (the pisiform) in the carpus. In many mammals, such bones include the patella and large sesamoids in the manus and pes. "In ungulates, on the other hand, the only [relatively] large sesamoid element is the patella. The sesamoids in the manus or pes are small nodular ossifications in the digital flexor tendons, both at the metapodial-phalangeal joint and the distal interphalangeal joint; suids have as many as 13 sesamoids in the manus alone." [emphasis added] Edited December 18, 2014 by Harry Pristis http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARALD Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 The only evidence we found up there were wolves, grizzly bears, and caribou. We did see a black bear 18 miles away down at the lake. This pass was the only logical place to cross the mountain range. The item was lying on top of the scant plant growth with no other evidence of any bones. Thanks again everyone for your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARALD Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 It appears that caribou have a well documented sesamoid bone in their feet. Am attempting to find picture of this. I would assume the object I found is to small for sesamoid of the knee. You all may have solved this. Wonderful amount of knowledge and help found in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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