believerjoe Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 This wasn't getting any love in a different post and I really am hoping to get some advice ASAP. Let's say that I have been finding parts to a Mosasaur for several months. Then one day I locate the source and excavate a few vertebrae before it gets dark. And let's assume I contact a certain university based on suggestions, email some photos and get positive ID that it is what we thought. THe thing is rare so of course they want to see it right away. My personal collection from the critter had reached maybe 14 - 15 verts, and a couple of jaw frags and a skull frag. No doubt they will want the donation and schedule excavation of anything remaining. I have been reading that a lot of folks are weary of donating because it may sit in a drawer and you would have rather it sat in your house. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Call 'em and donate it. "Sitting in a drawer" in a museum is how things are preserved until someone is ready and able to study it. This is a museum's primary purpose. If this is a significant fossil, let the pros handle it, else important contextual data be lost. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I'll second that. Contacts like this to a museum usually also bring a lot of benefits for the collector. You'll be there for the dig and can learn a lot from them. Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Fossils sitting in collection drawers are very important. Think about the analogy of old reference books in a library. Some may sit for decades on a dusty shelf waiting to land on the researcher's desk. The same formula applies to the actual fossils, with extra significance for additional research down the road. The university should certainly be very happy to accommodate you with some nice replica casts in exchange. Win-Win for everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amour 25 Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 This wasn't getting any love in a different post and I really am hoping to get some advice ASAP. Let's say that I have been finding parts to a Mosasaur for several months. Then one day I locate the source and excavate a few vertebrae before it gets dark. And let's assume I contact a certain university based on suggestions, email some photos and get positive ID that it is what we thought. THe thing is rare so of course they want to see it right away. My personal collection from the critter had reached maybe 14 - 15 verts, and a couple of jaw frags and a skull frag. No doubt they will want the donation and schedule excavation of anything remaining. I have been reading that a lot of folks are weary of donating because it may sit in a drawer and you would have rather it sat in your house. Thoughts? Well I guess I am with you, if found on Private land and you can do it up right, think you have the ability to mount it proper, then go for it. Can always donate it after you are gone, but in the mean time , you enjoyed it along with friends and family. I am finding it harder to believe all these new animals are all different species. I really am, but hey just a stubborn old geezer soon. You are right will sit in a draw for a while, look at the one found in Scotland like 40 plus yeas ago. I bet the Smithsonian still has stuff that has not seen the light of day in well over 100 years,same with the ones in New York and Chicago. Every find today is a new species of Mosasuar, maybe just a larger ,smaller , one. But hey your call. I have some things that the paleontologist from the Zoo wanted I said when I go all yours. But hey just my opinion. Besides they will never display half of what they have now. Same as the Badlands , I was there , and saw all kinds of fossils just weathering away, as no money to collect them all, and all common, but let nobody else have one. Now if you do, make sure to tell them you want a cast. Jeff Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 ... look at the one found in Scotland like 40 plus yeas ago... ...which would never have been 'discovered' had it not been properly curated. Let the museum pros decide if it's important enough, and let them bear the cost of preserving it in perpetuity if they think it is. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) I'm with the majority. Donating it will add to the pool of knowledge we all here value and thus enjoy so much. And we all learn from it. It won't likely be studied immediately but outside of a proper institution it will never get studied effectively. And it isn't at all about whether or not it is a new species - in all likelihood it isn't. But fossils like this are rare and almost all will be incomplete so any addition is valuable. Additionally, to know any species, many individuals, of all ages, and preferably both sexes, need to be studied in depth. And it's also not all about display. Most specimens in collections are not what most museum visitors would consider "display-worthy" and yet they can still be enormously important scientifically. What will get "displayed," if you will, is our improved knowledge down the road, however long that may be. And finally, donating a specimen is a feeling only second to finding it and much more rewarding that keeping it. Only those who donate know this truth. Edited January 13, 2015 by Carl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 There's an interesting discussion going on at the moment in the UK Forum which also throws some light on the issue: http://www.discussfossils.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6220&PN=1&SID=1141499cfd9azeedbaa4996zze4f59140046296&title=fossil-collecting-should-be-for-everyone Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 Well I guess I am with you, if found on Private land and you can do it up right, think you have the ability to mount it proper, then go for it. Can always donate it after you are gone, but in the mean time , you enjoyed it along with friends and family. I am finding it harder to believe all these new animals are all different species. ..................................................................... If everyone over time had this same idea / attitude towards science. We as a collective people would know nothing. Because it would all be sitting in someones house or attic and nothing would ever had been studied. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believerjoe Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share Posted January 13, 2015 For the record, it is not a new species, just one that is rare. I know that if I was to retain it, it would sit on a shelf for maybe 12 people to see and something donated could be studied and possibly make it on display somewhere. I would say that all the rules in our state say that we should report anything major or rare - although there seems to be a lack of understanding in my amateur community on exactly what that means. lol I will find out more on Saturday, but I had to be prepared before I went into it. I do take satisfaction in finding the thing to begin with! New adventure for me, but I did not want to do something that might be stupid, so I appreciate the responses guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPlainPetrified Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Great find! Please donate it so others can share in it. Whether rare or not, if the museum thinks they have a use for it then they are the body that should look after it. Keep on digging. Grant from Alberta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggieCie Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 IMHO; if it is something that is important to science, donate it with credit for finding it and a copy if possible. If not rare and you can handle it, than I would keep it. I believe it is our responsibility, with our thousands of pairs of eyes to let science know when we find something important. I thought that was part of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believerjoe Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 We got into doing this a little over a year ago mainly just enjoying the outdoors and the thrill of a find or two. Of course we learned how to find and ID a few things from the help of the forum. Eventually we were leaving some of the bone frags and hoping for nicer finds. A nice tooth or well preserved vert were high on the list. I can't believe that we managed to unsurface something this early in the game. I will have better posts coming soon when I know more. More Intel for tomorrow and then Saturday for a plan. Also nervous about protecting a site until an excavation can be done..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Siphuncle Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Get it appraised by a dealer, donate it and enjoy the tax writeoff - everyone wins. Ask if you can get a cast of anything especially cool or significant. I wonder if they'd be cool with you wanting to keep one nice vert. Grüße, Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas "To the motivated go the spoils." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I echo many of the comments above, and I've been in a similar situation a few times regarding a large find. Make sure it is excavated properly and photograph it extensively. As to whether it is rare, be sure you consult experts familiar with mosasaurs. It may be rare, or it may just be "rare" to university personnel not as experienced with mosasaurs. What kind of mosasaur has it been identified as? Is there likely a significant portion still in the ground? Congrats on your discovery. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
believerjoe Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 going to talk it out Saturday with them. I am willing to bet that the pieces I like are the ones they want. I am really hoping there is more in the ground. Photos would suffice in the end. It is already a permanent memory and highlight achievement at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squali Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Congratulations on the great find. !!! Take a gigaton of photos of the fossil and the process. Looking forward to the posts as the professional excavation takes place It's hard to remember why you drained the swamp when your surrounded by alligators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashcraft Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 If there is a jaw/skull, request a cast as part of the deal. They show well, and would have a great story to go with it. Keeping a vert is also doable. A note will be made with the curated specimen that you have it. Brent Ashcraft ashcraft, brent allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Pics!!! "Faith is to believe what you do not see; the reward of this faith is to see what you believe" - Saint Augustine"Those who can not see past their own nose deserve our pity more than anything else." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Get it appraised by a dealer, donate it and enjoy the tax writeoff - everyone wins. Ask if you can get a cast of anything especially cool or significant. I wonder if they'd be cool with you wanting to keep one nice vert. Getting an appraisal is a good idea, but .... A) it might not be yours to donate. Does it belong to the landowner? This is something the museum should be asking about. And it can be expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amour 25 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 ...which would never have been 'discovered' had it not been properly curated. Let the museum pros decide if it's important enough, and let them bear the cost of preserving it in perpetuity if they think it is. True maybe, but I can say that I donated found stuff to the Museum of the Great plains. http://www.discovermgp.org/home.html Edaphosaurus spines , teeth, and another stuff. Back in the 80's. He was happy about all , I asked going on display, said maybe in years down the road. Not enough room , and did not care to find any stuff , but I was happy, also have given stuff to the Local Zoo which had a Paleontologist on staff, nothing came of that neither. So with that in hand never again. But I have set up a deal with my friend in OK, that is an avid collector to take over my stuff when gone. So somebody some day might see what can be found around. Elephants in Oklahoma, get out of here. Do what you feel is right. Jeff Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Siphuncle Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Getting an appraisal is a good idea, but .... A) it might not be yours to donate. Does it belong to the landowner? This is something the museum should be asking about. And it can be expensive. Yes appraisals can cost something out of pocket. In the end, if there are academics, dealers, and serious collectors in your network of fossil friends, good options and advice are available from multiple sides. I've made many donations in the past, some requiring appraisals for writeoff. In my experience it has been worth the effort to get the appraisal. I think they key is recognizing when a find is truly significant in terms of rarity, preservation, and completeness. Life is expensive enough already, so I welcome a little relief when serendipity strikes. Grüße, Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas "To the motivated go the spoils." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bone2stone Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The appraisal is important if you do decide to donate it to a reputable establishment. Replica of specimen is OK if it is within a reasonable size for display in your home. Dan is right about write offs. I have donated vertebrate material several times and told years later that it was a viable tax deduction. Dan I like the use of the "serendipity strike". It is a very real description of fossil hunting. "You never know what you are going to find till you find it!" Jess B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggieCie Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) Proves the importance of amateurs finds. link posted in another thread by, Newdog65 http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/fossil-found-by-p-e-i-boy-fills-gap-in-reptile-evolution-1.2899592 Edited January 14, 2015 by ZiggieCie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Siphuncle Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Also keep in mind that you aren't committed to any one particular institution in particular. You are in the driver's seat. I suggest showing images to multiple institutions to ascertain who is hungriest for or most familiar with this sort of material. Who is most amenable to send you casts? In what timeframe? Crucially, is anyone poised to prep and study your material within a couple years? Is there an eager grad student available and motivated to write a paper in the near future? It sure is nice to see the process go full circle within a few short years. As an amateur you can't dictate the priority level for study, but you can get some feel for backlog between institutions. Do what suits you best, but these are factors I tend to keep in mind. Grüße, Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas "To the motivated go the spoils." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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