DE&i Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Hi everyone, Does anyone have experience in sieving for plant macrofossils. Regards, Darren. Regards.....D&E&i The only certainty with fossil hunting is the uncertainty. https://lnk.bio/Darren.Withers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Are we talking about seeds, spores, and such? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE&i Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Are we talking about seeds, spores, and such? Its a particular seed I'm going to attempt to search for. I've found an exposed Ipswichian stage mud-filled channel. Of particular interest are the seeds of the aquatic plant ( Salvinia natans ). These plants are not found in the British Isles today but they do occupy large areas in eastern Europe and western Asia. If found their presence indicates warmer summers during the Ipswichian Interglacial than we experience now. And would make a great association with some of my mammal bone finds. So I'm thinking of purchasing a microwave for my prepping shed to warm my sediment samples through. But of course I'm open to any suggestions. Regards.....D&E&i The only certainty with fossil hunting is the uncertainty. https://lnk.bio/Darren.Withers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 How interesting! Do you have images of the spores you'll be looking for? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squali Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 A coffee maker burner works well if it's an older one without auto shutoff. A plain hot plate on low is even better. Microwaves do heat faster but with less control. Some rocks have more moisture in them than others and can 'pop' If heated too quickly. Looking forward to see what you find. It's hard to remember why you drained the swamp when your surrounded by alligators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediospirifer Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 If there's any metals in your matrix, a microwave isn't the best way to do it. Too much iron pyrite in the matrix can start a fire! I use an electric fryer for my samples: I put the matrix in a ceramic bowl, place it on the fryer, and put the cover on. Warm for half an hour or so on low heat, then take the cover off and let it stand (still on low heat) for another ten minutes or so. That works fairly well for drying shale before dumping it in hydrogen peroxide. I haven't experimented with any other techniques I've seen recommended. The bowl makes it easy to transfer the dried material for the next stage of prep. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 An old baking pan and an oven on low will do the job. Please don't put rocks/fossils in the microwave! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE&i Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 Sorry for late reply things have been a bit manic of late. Here is just a small sample of the river deposit I intend to dry out as you can see it is quite organic in appearance with a very fine grainy texture. Could we say just judging by its appearance we can narrow down the drying techniques somewhat. Perhaps use the age old method and let it dry naturally in my shed. But im like a cat on a hot tin roof and just can’t sit still for a minute and wait that long. Regards, Darren. Regards.....D&E&i The only certainty with fossil hunting is the uncertainty. https://lnk.bio/Darren.Withers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I know the temptation is to hasten things by baking it; take care, though, that you don't make bricks! If it has much of a clay content, that could be an unintended outcome... You could try soaking a sample in hydrogen peroxide, to see whether it expedites things. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Place a bulb around 20 watts in an insulated box with a few vent holes that can/ could be made rather easy and safe. Check it out in a few days. Could make for interesting study and will work. Rodney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squali Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) Wow that is some difficult looking matrix to find identifiable plant material. I have peeled some Campanian clay open while it was fresh and have observed some plant remains but haven't had any luck in preserving it. SLOW drying may allow it to break on a fossil plane. If you suspect the plant material is fully mineralized I would do what Auspex suggests with a small test using Hydrogen Peroxide. I should of stayed focused on the plant material when I suggested hot drying. I was thinking of matrix that was already broken down. I agree baking solid clay matrix makes bricks and fractures fossils. Edited March 2, 2015 by squali It's hard to remember why you drained the swamp when your surrounded by alligators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediospirifer Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I haven't gone looking for plant materials, but I have had good results with boiling clay and sieving it wet. It might be worth trying that with a small sample. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 Hi, The clay requires to be dried well before being put in the hydrogen peroxide. It is the best work to obtain a good result (attention if the is some pyrite, that makes a chemical reaction which can be violent). Coco ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE&i Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) Hi everyone, I thought you would all like an update on my search for macro-fossils. Well I did indeed let it dry to its own devices in my shed on a tray on a window ledge. This left the material very dry and dust like which I couldn’t ask for a finer result to get me started. But again I got ahead of myself and jumped into my next stage of thought without really thinking things through. So set myself up with an old washing up bowl and placed my dry sediment into it. I then filled the bowl completely with cold water. Then I stirred it for a few minutes with the sole intention to start sieving the residue the next day. After a few hours I took a sneak preview to see how things were going and was greeted with quite a few seeds of different sizes as well as various Molluscs that had simply floated to the top of the bowl...! I’ve so far identified a species of Mollusc called Vallonia enniesis. “Who would have guessed I could get this far ““certainly not me “ I’ll keep you updated. Edited March 23, 2015 by DarrenElliot Regards.....D&E&i The only certainty with fossil hunting is the uncertainty. https://lnk.bio/Darren.Withers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Vallonia enniensis (note spelling) is an extant pulminate micro land snail. Like your target plant Salvinia natans, it is known from a broad area of Europe, but not in the UK. It's presence in the Ipswichian Interglacial sediments could be a pretty big deal! 1 "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE&i Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) Vallonia enniensis (note spelling) is an extant pulminate micro land snail. Like your target plant Salvinia natans, it is known from a broad area of Europe, but not in the UK. It's presence in the Ipswichian Interglacial sediments could be a pretty big deal!Very interesting.....at this particular gravel exposure the molluscan assemblage indicates a range of river and land habitats. With the latter including open grassland and possibly scrub or marsh vegetation.From what I've read and researched so far is that the aquatic environment suggested is one of a large slowly moving river, possibly with backwater or side-channel environments also present. There is also another species of mollusc that is a prominent species at this area called Belgrandia marginata which, together with the presence of the grassland species Vallonia enniensis, suggests deposition at the warmest part of an interglacial. And its these side-channels that I'm quite sure I've discovered. Edited March 24, 2015 by DarrenElliot Regards.....D&E&i The only certainty with fossil hunting is the uncertainty. https://lnk.bio/Darren.Withers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE&i Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 And here we go….possible Vallonia enniensis. I took the photo through my miniature microscope using the macro function on my Canon digital IXUS 120 IS. Regards.....D&E&i The only certainty with fossil hunting is the uncertainty. https://lnk.bio/Darren.Withers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediospirifer Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Very nice! Enjoy your finds. Good luck finding IDs (or not--finding something new to science would be REALLY cool!), and I hope you find a lot more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE&i Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Very nice! Enjoy your finds. Good luck finding IDs (or not--finding something new to science would be REALLY cool!), and I hope you find a lot more! Thankyou very much....to find something new certainly would be inspiring to take things to another level. I'm now taking some tentative steps, photographing some seeds ive found. Regards.....D&E&i The only certainty with fossil hunting is the uncertainty. https://lnk.bio/Darren.Withers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE&i Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Hi everyone, Ive had the NHM here in the UK look at this shell, experts there suggest it may be a Valvata (freshwater gastropod). Ive now been asked to contact the University of Oxford where they have a specialist on this material. Regards.....D&E&i The only certainty with fossil hunting is the uncertainty. https://lnk.bio/Darren.Withers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediospirifer Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Hi everyone, Ive had the NHM here in the UK look at this shell, experts there suggest it may be a Valvata (freshwater gastropod). Ive now been asked to contact the University of Oxford where they have a specialist on this material. Cool! When the experts want a closer look at your find(s), you know you have something good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I found this: LINK The genus Valvata has a fossil record in the UK, with the species V. piscinalis. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE&i Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 I found this: LINK The genus Valvata has a fossil record in the UK, with the species V. piscinalis. The chase is on... so far all roads are leading to one conclusion. Regards.....D&E&i The only certainty with fossil hunting is the uncertainty. https://lnk.bio/Darren.Withers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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