BigGuy Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Two pictures ; one from Texas on a previous post and the other from South Dakota I noticed that it has radial symmetry ether 5 fold or 6 fold. Edited February 20, 2015 by BigGuy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Dying to know what these are! Wasn't there a third one posted on here, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGuy Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 (edited) Yes the third was from the Mississippian in the Fayetteville shale. Five fold symmetry Edited February 20, 2015 by BigGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I sure hope we can get these things figured out, finally! 1 "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGuy Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Auspex, I hope we can figured it out also. I have got to read the mystery to the end to find out who done it. Everyone loves a mystery. The site link I posted has some unbelievable well preserved fossils. This is the reference to the coprolites of Arilngton, Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Has anyone looked at these things under magnification? ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGuy Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 Five fold radial symmetry is common to Echinoderms. There is a spiral echinoderm that is similar but it is much much earlier - Cambrian. Here is a link: http://www.livescience.com/37723-image-gallery-bizarre-cambrian-creature.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeschWhat Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I would contact Karen Chin (University of CO, Boulder) to positively rule it out as a coprolite, but personally, I think it looks too perfect. Could it be some sort of horn/antler? Whatever it is, it is spectacular! Lori www.areallycrappystory.com/fossils www.facebook.com/fossilpoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinodigger Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Burrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 The Mississipian Arkansas spiral. The Late Cretaceous South Dakota spiral. The Late Cretaceous Texas spiral. The similarities between the Mississippian specimen and the SD specimen are interesting. All specimens show SIX 'ribs'. I have no idea what they are, but tend to agree that these are not coprolites. If pressed, I would look more into the egg case possibilities. I'm confident one of our members will find the answer. 1 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I think that egg case is unlikely; on the similar modern analogs, any 'wings' and 'folds' are membranous, while these fossil specimens sport thick ridges. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGuy Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 Thank you everybody. One of my college course was about symmetry. It is so very common in nature and remarkably frequently follows rules based upon a constant (The Golden Ratio). I will make a postulate (please be patient). The same area is well known for fossil cycads which have perfect radial symmetry. I am not suggesting that this is a cycad but we might consider the plant kingdom. Six is a very common symmetry in plants. Here is a links to plants with similar appearance. These pictures are cactus which is not what I think it is http://www.cactus-art.biz/schede/CEREUS/Cereus_forbesii/Cereus_forbesii_spiralis/Cereus_forbesii_v_spiraliforme.htm .https://www.pinterest.com/search/pins/?q=spirals%20plants&term_meta%5B%5D=spirals%7Ctyped&term_meta%5B%5D=plants%7Ctyped&remove_refine=catus%7Ctyped Thank you Auspex for clearing up the 5 or six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 The spirally shaped nails that I used to build my house fell from favor when it was discovered that changes in temperature and humidity caused them to back out of the wood on their own. It's easy to imagine that with a slightly different shape in different medium seed pods shaped like this could have evolved to plant themselves by a similar process. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGuy Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) I found 2 living examples of a spiral shaded seed pod. One from the Turk islands. Please feel free to add your opinions. I am just thinking a little outside the box. https://www.pinterest.com/disurningtaste/seed-pods/ P.S. I fully realize that Late Cretaceous fits seed pods. But no so much Mississippian. I live Near Fayettevile and will take a look at the Fayettevile shale to see if the are others. I have a large number of fossils from the Fayetteville shale. A good site is behind the bowling alley so Billie and I can go bowling. Edited February 21, 2015 by BigGuy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bone2stone Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Yes, additional images would be useful. It reminds me of This Topic.... Yes, additional images would be useful. It reminds me of This Topic.... I am updating the images of my pseudounicornious with more detail. (Yes, I still refer to mine as pseudounicornious) No suitable description has yet been presented. The first image has one small area where a sample was taken for examination and it has the appearance of being bony structure not unlike a horn or solid spike. A "stepped" pattern within the broken structure area as if it once matched up to more of the specimen. The one BigGuy posted in this link appears to have double terminate ends whereas mine looks to be just part of something else. This posting may be used for any educational or comparative purpose. Jess B. Edited February 22, 2015 by bone2stone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bone2stone Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Failed to load visible internal structuring. Will try another load. The "stepped" pattern looks to be an impression but continuance of this same pattern structure, although not apparent, continues inward. Jess B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I'm convinced ! . . . that lumping similar items is a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bone2stone Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I'm convinced ! . . . that lumping similar items is a bad idea. Oh but dude it makes for so much good controversy. I would like to see all of these specimens together in the hands of a broader study group. If we could have a consensus and commitment to return said items I would go along with the study as long as they do not slice it up into 400 pcs and distribute it around the world. Jess B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Comparison and contrast is one of the few tools at our disposal here, and is useful as long as we avoid conclusions not fully supported by the evidence. 2 "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGuy Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Look at the last picture showing the end view. It has the 6 rays of symmetry. The rays match as does the cone shape . There is a relationship.Thanks Jess Edited February 22, 2015 by BigGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Really cool specimen man! Knowledge has three degrees-opinion, science, illumination. The means or instrument of the first is sense; of the second, dialectic; of the third, intuition. Plotinus 204 or 205 C.E., Egyptian Philosopher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Could these be very worn Helicocystis? I can't really make out segmentation, but it's the closest thing i can come up with. Also one small problem.... it's hundreds of millions apart in the fossil record. Edited February 22, 2015 by fossilized6s ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Comparison and contrast is one of the few tools at our disposal here, and is useful as long as we avoid conclusions not fully supported by the evidence. Correct of course. I'm sure there is a long list of former puzzles that have been solved this way. It was a sour grapes moment on my part and I'm sorry I got in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGuy Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Helicocystis has the five fold symmetry therefore it is an early echinoderm of the Cambrian period. That being said fossiled6s, I have thought the same thing. Also, we might be looking at a as not been identified species. Come warm weather Billie and I will head to SD. It is one of our favorite places on the plantet. There are mineral specimens, agates and Incredible fossils. I will send a picture to the Black Hills Institute. We have some great fossils from the bluffs of the Cheyenne River. Edited February 23, 2015 by BigGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 If this is an undescribed species of echinoderm, would yours be the Holotype for comparison? I can wait to see what you guys dig up, both figuratively and literally. Definitely keep us posted on any news. ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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