abyssunder Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Hello everybody! Here I have a moroccan matrix with a mosasaurus tooth on the top,bought from an european seller.The tooth is glued to the matrix,not part of it.Let`s guess what could be in the matrix:fish/shark bones,tooth,vertebrae,coprolit,etc.? Waiting your opinion. Thank you. " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 I decided to take a look inside the matrix to know what treasure can be there,so I started to prep it,very carefuly,not to damage anything. " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 ...continue digging and my soliloquium... " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 ...continued... " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 ...and these also... Any ID? " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolmt Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Very nice .... looks like your having fun at it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Thank you for your appreciation,Malcolmt. Finaly I finished the prep to reveal what`s inside the matrix,and believe me,it was not so easy as I expected.Now,I ask you to help identify the elements of the ex matrix with assigned numbers to each. " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Thank you. " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 As determined in my other recent thread Dermal Denticle one of the elements of this ex matrix,the Ray tooth,i think the whole ensemble is from Cretaceous/Mastrichtian of Morocco. Please help to determine the other elements seen on picture 9.jpg at #8. 1.vertebra of...fish/shark? 2.bone of...? 3.coprolite? 4.coprolite 5.coprolite? 6.vertebrae of...fish? 7.bone of...fish/shark? 8.four curved bones of...fish/shark? 9.vertebra of...shark/fish? 10.bone fragment/coprolite? 11.vertebra...? 12.coprolite...? Maybe some of the elements belongs to Mosasaur? " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceros Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Abyssunder - You've gone to a great deal of trouble to prep this lump of phosphate, so I'll give it my best shot. First - this is a grouping of several different animals so, with one exception, my advice would be to completely dis-assemble all of the fossils. The one exception is the string of four bony fish vertebrae (#6), which appear to belong to a single individual. The plainer, somewhat larger bony fish vertebrae (#1 and another on the other side), is another kind of bony fish. Similarly, there are two quite different types of shark vertebral centra (the neural and haemal arches of shark vertebrae are uncalcified cartilage, so only the central centrum of the vertebra preserves) - the big partial one(#8) seems to have splintered a bit, but is likely a regular type of shark centrum (with only two pairs of holes at top and bottom, for the two legs of each uncalcified cartilage arch). #9 is another, more advanced, type of shark, with a multiseptate centrum (one with narrow slots all around the rim). You see that kind in lamnid (mackerel) sharks. The stick-like thing (#7) might be a bony fish fin spine. I see nothing I'd recognize as either a spiral or regular-type coprolite. The (shed?) mosasaur tooth crown is certainly mosasaurine mosasaurid (based on the evident longitudinal facets), and likely Mosasaurus beaugei Arambourg, 1952 (although most of what he called that is really Prognathodon giganteus, and a few teeth are Liodon anceps). Your tooth looks like a Mosasaurus. It's possible that the stick-like bone frag. near it is a phalanx of the same thing. Nothing can be done with most of the bone frags. Auspex - Would it be possible to arrange it so, when you leave a webpage to look at a photo enlargement, you could come back to the same spot (rather than always coming back to the top of the page)? It would save a great deal of time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 Thank you,Diceros, for your pretios time and your comprehensive answer,it helps me a lot.I appreciate! " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taj Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Well, that isa very nice piece . You've done well and I'm not sure any piece of matrix would be so rich to begin with .. Personnally , I would keep this piece as is . These fossils are pretty common , but such a nice association is seldom seen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Thanks for your appreciation,taj! Every Moroccan matrix that is for sale contains more or less fossils,with an attached Mosasaur or Spinosau tooth.You never know what contains a matrix,sometimes shark teeth.The most important thing in prep of this kind of matrix is to NOT USE WATER to clean ,because it falls apart,disintegrates and you remain with nothing. I keep this piece in the actual condition,because I think looks nice. from other two matrix: Edited April 2, 2015 by abyssunder " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 ...Auspex - Would it be possible to arrange it so, when you leave a webpage to look at a photo enlargement, you could come back to the same spot (rather than always coming back to the top of the page)? It would save a great deal of time. Do you refer to the images attached to this topic? For me, they open/close without leaving the Forum, and my page position is unchanged. Maybe I do not understand the question... 1 "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullsnake Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Auspex - Would it be possible to arrange it so, when you leave a webpage to look at a photo enlargement, you could come back to the same spot (rather than always coming back to the top of the page)? It would save a great deal of time. Do you refer to the images attached to this topic? For me, they open/close without leaving the Forum, and my page position is unchanged. Maybe I do not understand the question... It might be a Compatability View setting, depending on the browser. 2 Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceros Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Abyssunder - For the sake of completeness, the shark tooth seen at far left in the lower left photo of your 5:13AM Apr. 2 post, is an upper lateral tooth of Cretolamna appendiculata biauriculata, seen in labial view. It's a typical Maastrichtian form, and shows the problem with Cretolamna - the pair of accessory cusps on each side is as is seen in the Paleocene/Eocene type species of Otodus, O. obliquus - so it's more closely related to Otodus than it is to typical Cretolamna. By the way, you'd never get a mosasaur tooth (Maastr. lw. phosphate bed, western coastal Morocco) in the same block with a Spinosaurus tooth (e. Cenomanian Kem Kem beds, SE Morocco) - different times and habitats. Auspex - Yes, my problem is that when I click on a thumbnail to see the enlargement, it leaves the Forum page, and when I click the Back arrow, it always goes back to the top of the page I left, not to the spot I left from. I'll bet Bullsnake is right - that it's a problem with my browser, an old Internet Explorer. I'm sure my very slow dial-up connection also doesn't help (sorry, I'm old-fashioned, and cheap). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Diceros,thank you for completing the thread.I appreciate. " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfLeighton Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Hi abyss under, i found the link, thank you for sharing photos are great and you certainly put in the hours to expose all of rthat . must have been interesting work, and look at the rewards! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flx Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Great job. How did you do that? Just scratching off matrix with a hand pick? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 On 3/31/2015 at 0:46 PM, abyssunder said: Thank you. 1 looks like a Startodus vertebra. 6 looks like it could be Enchodus. 12 looks like a coprolite. And even though you said the tooth was glued in place. I find it likely that it fell off and was glued back. When teeth are placed in a piece of matrix it normally looks different. Looks like Prognathodon sp. 1 Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 On 8/18/2017 at 9:34 AM, ProfLeighton said: Hi abyss under, i found the link, thank you for sharing photos are great and you certainly put in the hours to expose all of rthat . must have been interesting work, and look at the rewards! I see now that you've found the link. Sorry, I didn't checked if someone has replied to this older post. Thank you. On 8/18/2017 at 0:50 PM, Flx said: Great job. How did you do that? Just scratching off matrix with a hand pick? I used a very cheap (sold in China) electric engraving pen carve tool for the prep, considering that the matrix is very soft and easy to handle, but a very carefully prep is needed, and some imagination. " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 On 8/18/2017 at 1:45 PM, LordTrilobite said: 1 looks like a Startodus vertebra. 6 looks like it could be Enchodus. 12 looks like a coprolite. And even though you said the tooth was glued in place. I find it likely that it fell off and was glued back. When teeth are placed in a piece of matrix it normally looks different. Looks like Prognathodon sp. All the teeth of the three presented matrices were glued to the matrix, so I think is not fair to consider that they were glued back to the matrix. For 1 - I think you could be right, Olof. I checked your specimen, here , for comparison. Also a good resemblance I find with this specimen: For 6 - I don't know how big could be an Enchodus, but the vertebrae (and vertebral columns) I've seen online have the same morphology and dimensions (around 1cm in length for each vertebrae). Considering they were small to medium in size, you could be right in the ID, and I thank you for the good call. For 12 - It is strange. My initial thought was that it could be a coprolite, but the transverse section looks like having worn conchoidal fractures, so I can't conclude between coprolite and phosphatic nodule. The Mosasaurus tooth from the matrix is faceted, that gives me the presumpsion that it could be M. beaugei, rather than Prognathodon. " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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