amour 25 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Curiosity. What is the top feline predator in the Pleistocene of Oklahoma? We had Jaguars and Panthera Leo Atrox (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_lion) here in Florida although Atrox material is extremely rare. The Atrox Canine example from Taylor County Florida online is 5.25 inches. Size alone would say this is Jaguar, but I would like Nate and Harry to jump in... They say Homotherium serum ,but I have never seen one item from one, and most of the people that collect, have never mentioned it neither. But they also say Cougar around the river , and I have never seen one neither, but one guy swears up and down he has seen a mother with cubs walking the river edge years back. About all I got. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amour 25 Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Well deserved indeed, to the best trader in the business. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 Thank you very much Julianna and Jeff! : ) Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynot Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 WAY COOL-- very nice tooth Jeff You just keep them coming!!! Tony PS can not wait to see what is next? Darwin said: " Man sprang from monkeys." Will Rogers said: " Some of them didn't spring far enough." My Fossil collection - My Mineral collection My favorite thread on TFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 What a great find Jeff! Definitely a center piece of any collection. Congratulations! It was just a matter of time with all of the hard work you put in to find these treasures. ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 They say Homotherium serum ,but I have never seen one item from one, and most of the people that collect, have never mentioned it neither. But they also say Cougar around the river , and I have never seen one neither, but one guy swears up and down he has seen a mother with cubs walking the river edge years back. About all I got. Thanks for the reply, I picked up this quote off the net: Although much rarer than the sabretooth cat (Smilodon fatalis) and the American lion (Panthera leo atrox), it seems to have been the only member of the Homotheriini (scimitar cats including Machairodus and Homotherium) and Smilodontini (related sabretooth cats including Megantereon, Ischyrosmilus and Smilodon) to have lived in Eastern Beringia (unglaciated Alaska, Yukon and adjacent Northwest Territories). http://beringia.com/research/scimitar_cat.html If you had a cat rarer than Smilodon fatalis, no wonder it is the stuff of mystery!!! The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 Thanks so much Tony and Charlie! : ) Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphactinus Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Congrats on the terrific find!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 Congrats on the terrific find!!thank you very much! : ) Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Jeff, what the heck...that's a really a puny tooth. Dont fool with it anymore and have it take up your primo shelf space. Send it to me! Congrats! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 Thanks Chris! if I get tired of looking at it I'll send it your way : ) Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrehistoricFlorida Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) This tooth is too compressed and elongated in cross-section for me to classify it with any of the conical toothed felids. It is well within the size range for the early Pleistocene giant short-faced bear, Arctodus pristinus. Edited April 16, 2015 by PrehistoricFlorida www.PrehistoricFlorida.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 Thank you for taking a look at it Nate, it's appreciated : ) Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 This tooth is too compressed and elongated in cross-section for me to classify it with any of the conical toothed felids. It is well within the size range for the early Pleistocene giant short-faced bear, Arctodus pristinus. You would know! LINK Do you have any other views of this (or similar) Arctodus canines? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrehistoricFlorida Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Auspex, the canine you're referencing is Arctodus simus, a larger species. Here are a couple A. pristinus canines. The first is a lower left, it is 86mm long. The second is also a lower left, it is 77mm long. Edited April 16, 2015 by PrehistoricFlorida www.PrehistoricFlorida.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 The degree of lateral compression is compelling. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Auspex, the canine you're referencing is Arctodus simus, a larger species. Here are a couple A. pristinus canines. The first is a lower left, it is 86mm long. The second is also a lower left, it is 77mm long. Nate, what typically distinguishes these teeth from felids? Do you have some examples? Jeff, you have to love finding a tooth that generates a good discussion. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 I agree that it looks very similar to those bear teeth Nate As much as I would love this to be an Atrox, I would love to know the correct ID. I know how difficult it can be (especially from pics alone)and appreciate all the folks on here who take on the task of figuring out what belongs to who The tooth is compressed to the point that on the back edge there's a visible ridge( I wet the tooth to highlight this) and took a pic of the broken end where you can see it better as well. If this helps anyone be more confident of an ID please let me know. Thank you all Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amour 25 Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I agree that it looks very similar to those bear teeth Nate As much as I would love this to be an Atrox, I would love to know the correct ID. I know how difficult it can be (especially from pics alone)and appreciate all the folks on here who take on the task of figuring out what belongs to who The tooth is compressed to the point that on the back edge there's a visible ridge( I wet the tooth to highlight this) and took a pic of the broken end where you can see it better as well. If this helps anyone be more confident of an ID please let me know. Thank you all This might be silly , but if okay make a mold and send it to some guy to look at just as good as the real one. If you use a good resin and a Platinum cure rubber size will not lose too much in size. Small shrinkage say .03 % http://www.smooth-on.com/Life-Casting/c3/index.html And you still have the original. 1 Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrehistoricFlorida Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) Here are a couple large male jaguar canines for comparison. The first tooth is an upper right and measures 93mm long. The second tooth is a lower right and measures 81mm long. Edited April 17, 2015 by PrehistoricFlorida www.PrehistoricFlorida.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 Thanks for the info Jeff , I will take this tooth to someone to look at in person when I have the opportunity. Just not sure when that'll be : ) Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 Thanks for the additonal pics Nate, are Felid teeth more conical and not compressed? I've searched online but it was hard to find pics that had the views I was looking for: ) Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrehistoricFlorida Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) Yes, conical toothed felid (margay, bobcat, panther, cheetah, jaguar, lion) canines are roughly more conical in cross-section. Bear canines are more oval in cross-section. Edited April 17, 2015 by PrehistoricFlorida 1 www.PrehistoricFlorida.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 Thank you Nate : ) Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Jeff . . . I think you've reached the point of diminishing returns in trying to identify this canine from images. There is no substitute for taking this tooth to the FSM and comparing it in-hand with carnivore material in the collections. What you can rely upon is that the canine is an out-of-the-ordinary specimen, worth the trek to G'ville (or, you can mail it to Hulbert). http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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