Jesuslover340 Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 It's claimed to be from Morocco, so I was curious as to other, more experienced opinions on it. Is it real, do you think, and what species is it? Thanks in advance for any help! http://i.imgur.com/fmIqLik.jpg http://i.imgur.com/WMBqcXZ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/0py7jhk.jpg "Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another."-Romans 14:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggedy Man Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) Looks real to me. Not the super best condition and common. As far as what species, I will have to say Phacops speculator, but we'll see. Over all its a nice piece. Edited May 4, 2015 by Raggedy Man ...I'm back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) Personally i wouldn't pay more then $5 for it. It's pretty rough. There aren't any details left in the eyes, bad prep and why is the matrix so big for such a small bug? Edited May 4, 2015 by fossilized6s ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesuslover340 Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 Thank you very much-it was claimed to be Phacops africanus, but again, wanted to be sure. It was a gift, and that's what truly matters "Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another."-Romans 14:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggedy Man Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Charlie, yep I also never understood the need to leave all that matrix behind. ...I'm back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggedy Man Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 The pygidium though not visually clear, looks like P. africanus, but the eyes are too distorted and lack the definition. It could be africanus. Can you post a better photo of the eyes and or pygidium? Best regards, Paul ...I'm back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 "Phacops speculator" is a dealer created species that does not exist. Sorry to report there is no possible species determination without counting the eye lenses first. Furthermore, the features of the trilobite are not actually consistent with a 'phacopid'. Instead it appears to a proetid (Gerastos) because of the slim thoracic axial rings and wide pygidial axis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggedy Man Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Thanks for clearing that up piranha. I thought speculator sounded weird. I am by no means an expert on moroccan trilobites. I have 2. One from a forum auction and another from a close friend. I typically stay away from them so my knowledge of them is limited. Thanks again for clearing that up! Paul ...I'm back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Unfortunately some dealers have been calling all Moroccan phacopids by that name for many years now. Although it doesn't exist now, "Phacops" speculator was erected as a new species by Alberti 1970. Alberti's 1970 "P. speculator" was the only paper ever published with that name, and now because of some very distinct differences it's classified in the genus Austerops. The taxonomy can get confusing at times! Alberti, G.K.B. (1970) Trilobiten des jüngeren Siluriums sowie des Unter- und Mitteldevons. Part II. Trilobites of the late Silurian, as well as the early and middle Devonian; part 2. Abh. Der Senckenbergischen Naturforschenden Gesellschaft, 525:1-233 Quote "Austerops species clearly differ in terms of their glabellar proportions, doublure sculpture, and a large suite of characters pertaining to the size and position of the eye upon the cephalon." Austerops speculator (Alberti, 1970) Austerops speculator speculator (Alberti, 1970) Phacops (Phacops) cf. rana milleri Stewart; (Alberti, 1969) Phacops fecundus Barrande; (Gigout, 1965) Phacops fecundus Barrande; (Gigout, 1955) Phacops fecundus Barrande; (Gigout, 1951) Chatterton, B.D.E., & McKellar, R.C. (2009) Early and Middle Devonian Phacopidae (Trilobita) of southern Morocco. Palaeontographica Canadiana, 28:1-110 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesuslover340 Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Learning new things I have never considered going after any Moroccan trilobites due to so many fakes, but again, this was a gift, and curiosity killed the cat http://i.imgur.com/VkJUtl3.jpg http://i.imgur.com/S5lS69t.jpg http://i.imgur.com/yhdhB0S.jpg "Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another."-Romans 14:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranha Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 This image is clear proof it's a proetid (Gerastos). It looks like some bug bondo has been applied to smooth it over. At least you didn't pay for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesuslover340 Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Thank you very much! It was only $10, so not much to worry about. "Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another."-Romans 14:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 These new pictures indeed confirm this is a Gerastos. Some heavy restorations there, in particular the margins and the left hand side of the pygidium (tail section). Paleo database, information and community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macrophyseter Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 and also, make sure about the location it is from. There are certain places in Morocco that do not have trilobite fossils. And Xtra Info, Atlas Mountains are a rich source of trilobite fossils. If you're a fossil nut from Palos Verdes, San Pedro, Redondo Beach, or Torrance, feel free to shoot me a PM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlichia Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) Gerastos sp. , Eifelian, Devonian, probable from Djebel Issoumour. Edited May 12, 2015 by Redlichia ->>>>> < Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesuslover340 Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Thanks everyone! The card it came with states it's from the Hamar formation. "Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another."-Romans 14:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 That is just some sales talk. There is no such formation. Hamar Laghdad however, is a location east of Erfoud, on the Talifalt plateau. But the term is used to sell trilobites from all over that region, so it has little information value. Paleo database, information and community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I wonder how much more these things would be valued if: -they didn't butcher them in trying to prep -pics were better! -accurate strat./location data was included with sale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I wonder how much more these things would be valued if: -they didn't butcher them in trying to prep -pics were better! -accurate strat./location data was included with sale Gift and curio shop purchasers not only do not care about such, they do not know that they should care, do not know enough to assess things in any case, and have no interest in knowing more than they are told about them at the point of sale. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Gift and curio shop purchasers not only do not care about such, they do not know that they should care, do not know enough to assess things in any case, and have no interest in knowing more than they are told about them at the point of sale. Maybe if they knew there were people like me who would pay more for such attention to details, they could ask for more money. I guess I am too rare an exception, but it only takes one buyer to make that buy (or I guess two, if you need competition to get that price up). Of course there are plenty of sellers who do have good fossils and good info, with higher prices, and I can only afford so many of these! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 ...Of course there are plenty of sellers who do have good fossils and good info, with higher prices, and I can only afford so many of these! That may have made my point quite nicely! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) That may have made my point quite nicely! But I am not a good representation of a fossil buyer, casual or serious, as I have less money than most. What I don't understand is, why do some dealers have fossils, from a given source in Morocco, with data and not butchered, while others have the same fossils from the same area but without these qualities? Are there different collectors, some more careful than others, or do some of the dealers deliberately ignore/lose the data that would come with them from the supplier? And who would ask for butchered fossils when they could ask for non-butchered examples and possibly get more for them (Seem to be lots of people at least here on TFF who are interested in trying their hand at prepping and would do a better job than anyone could do with a nail, and speaking for myself, I would rather have an unprepped example than a badly-prepped one) Edited May 12, 2015 by Wrangellian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Just being a fossil dealer doesn't make someone knowledgeable about fossils; they are just repeating what they were told. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangellian Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 It sounds like we should campaign to get fossil dealers who order from Morocco (and other places) to make sure they get accurate info with their orders, if the suppliers know it (they at least know the locations - maybe they are secretive about these?) I don't see why you would have to be a knowledgeable dealer to get this info, just ask for it. I have more than once already asked dealers for location/strat data and you know the response I get, but it doesn't hurt to ask: maybe if enough of us ask for this they might get the message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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