Iguanodonfossil Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Hi all, Recently I have come across what appears to be a Cave hyena lower molar from Tornewton cave in South Devon. As many of you will now know collecting from these sites is strictly prohibited, however a lot of people collected from these sites during the 18th/19th century up until as late as the 1950s some professional and some not (so a few fossils are housed within private collections still). I found this for sale on a fairly well renowned UK fossil site, and I brought it keen to understand more about it's history. Unlike the other "unmarked" cave hyena fossils that you will see on the market this fossil is marked with "TN ( )". All museums will mark their fossils usually with a letter code followed by numbers for cataloging reasons. I emailed the owner of the site, and he stated that he tried and couldn't find what collection it may have belonged, however the understanding is that it's from Tornewton because of the first letter code TN and from information given by the last collector. I have a theory that the tooth was at some point apart of a small collection probably owned by an independent museum (we have a few in the UK, and they were fairly popular in their hay day). Then at some point it had to close, or they had to downsize their collection and therefore sold off some specimens at auction which would explain it going back into private hands. But why no number? unless of course they were yet to fill that in, or they simply didn't know any extra info apart from it's locality? If anyone can offer any help to this, or give me answers on why it's missing some information I'd be happy to hear what you have to say if possible I would love to trace this fossil back so that a museum can benefit from it (as cave hyena fossils are pretty rare as is). From some internet research I have found out that Torquay museum may house some of the specimens from this particular site, and I would like to get in touch and see if this specimen fits in. I am very keen on making sure that scientific information isn't lost in a sea of private collections, so that's why I'm asking here. If you think you might know any information on this specimen, on Tornewton cave , on the number, on the letter code "TN" or what "( )" might mean let me know in the comments ! p.s The search may end up being fruitless but I at least want to try to learn more. I am fairly positive on the ID being cave hyena after countless comparisons, measurements and knowing that 2000 or more hyena remains from the cave have been discovered over it's history (But I am always open to critiques). - Photographs are not mine but show the specimen in detail. (sorry if there are any initial spelling or grammar errors, I shall edit these out later.) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave pom Allen Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 looks like molar from a big cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iguanodonfossil Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 looks like molar from a big cat Hyenas are feliforms (they are more related to the cat family then the dog family) and they do have carnassials similar to big cats. But I don't think this is the case here? Can you maybe state as to why you think this further? . Cave lion remains are much rarer to find then that of the cave hyena here in Europe, also the carnassials of a big cat tend to be longer and higher up from the gum-line, as well as not being as stout in structure. Also the roots of a big cat carnassial are usually thinner and not as bulky or would be as anchored. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 2000+ remains found in the cave?! I don't think I would want to go into that cave if I were a cave hyena!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iguanodonfossil Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 2000+ remains found in the cave?! I don't think I would want to go into that cave if I were a cave hyena!!! Haha I know right? but unfortuneatly it means individual remains such as teeth, skulls, jaw fragments etc. England was vastly populated with these beasts however, and hyena remains do account for most of the fauna of the era. I have managed to see an expert in the time of this post and they will help me re-locate it hopefully in the records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Wow small world I have friend who too has a very similar tooth to yours . He has I think a set of hyena fossil teeth 2 or 3 and 6 or 7 hyena foot bones all with TN ( ) . I have not seen him in years so maybe a good time to talk and tell him about your post. Thanks for the post Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iguanodonfossil Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 On 3/7/2017 at 5:15 PM, Bobby Rico said: Wow small world I have friend who too has a very similar tooth to yours . He has I think a set of hyena fossil teeth 2 or 3 and 6 or 7 hyena foot bones all with TN ( ) . I have not seen him in years so maybe a good time to talk and tell him about your post. Thanks for the post Bobby Hi, This is very interesting, since making this post a lot of scientific interest was stirred about this tooth. It's going in for carbon analysis in a week or two, as my archeologist friend wants to write a paper on this. If you do make contact with him, I would be interested to hear any info that he has on his collection that can shed some light on this tooth's origin. Contact me via PM with any further info as this could be scientifically important. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abyssunder Posted March 12, 2017 Share Posted March 12, 2017 Tor Newton " We are not separate and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way. " Thomas Mann My Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 Hi misted out this photo , sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iguanodonfossil Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 On 3/13/2017 at 7:01 PM, Bobby Rico said: Hi misted out this photo , sorry. Thank you so much! If you have any extra info on this for example who the seller was etc please send me a PM. Anything right now would be super helpful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 Probably best not to publish your personal e-mail address on a site with thousands of views a day. Better to exchange information through the Forum's Private Messaging system. Regards, Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iguanodonfossil Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 16 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said: Probably best not to publish your personal e-mail address on a site with thousands of views a day. Better to exchange information through the Forum's Private Messaging system. Regards, Good point! Also noticed it's the same guy who got in contact with me via email anyway But if anyone else has any info on this collection or anything in detail to share PM me and I'll forward you my email personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iguanodonfossil Posted March 21, 2017 Author Share Posted March 21, 2017 *I'll also update this post with carbon date results (when I get them) and which museum it will be transferred to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 So how old is the hyena tooth then. Kind regards Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iguanodonfossil Posted April 23, 2017 Author Share Posted April 23, 2017 On 14/04/2017 at 0:30 AM, Bobby Rico said: So how old is the hyena tooth then. Kind regards Bobby It will be a while before the results are formally published in it's scientific paper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Rico Posted November 19, 2017 Share Posted November 19, 2017 Hi can you please tell me how old your hyena tooth is . That is if you have the carbon data test information back . Thanks Bobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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