Yet Another... Keichousaurus Thread; Advice Please!

[misterdorsh]

Hi everyone!

Here's my story -

I'd really like to add a legitimate Keichousaurus fossil to my collection.

On eBay (yes, I know you're all shaking your head), I initially bid on the following keichousaurus "fossil" from China (images attached). Anyway, I ended up with the winning bid, but after closer examination on the tail, I noticed a small missing piece that is chipped directly below the mangled pevlis. From viewing similar posts of seemingly faked Chinese vertebrate fossils, I understand the tail was probably painted on, diminishing the quality of the overall piece.

When asked for images prior to preparation, the seller did not have any on hand, so I got a refund.

Continued...

[kazin]

I'm no expert, but China does not allow the export of any fossils. Merchants don't mess with that law, especially on eBay. They will be happy to export fakes of fossils to anyone that will pay.

There are a few China "fossil" sellers on eBay....nothing they have is legit.

[misterdorsh]

(continuation)

So I've been keeping in contact with the seller (remember, from China) to view her other products, and I asked if there were any pre-prepared Keichousaurus fossils in stock. Then I was sent 4 different sets of images of fossils that haven't been prepared/restored.

Do you think these are real (any of them)? I'm sorry I don't have any better images, but I can ask if more verification is needed. Let me know what you think, or if you have any advice on what to look for in the future with regards to vertebrate fossils.

Cheers,

Justin

#1

Edited May 13, 2015 by misterdorsh

[misterdorsh]

#2

[misterdorsh]

#3

[misterdorsh]

#4

Edited May 13, 2015 by misterdorsh

[Fossildude19]

I'm no expert, but China does not allow the export of any fossils. Merchants don't mess with that law, especially on eBay. They will be happy to export fakes of fossils to anyone that will pay.

There are a few China "fossil" sellers on eBay....nothing they have is legit.

This is not entirely true.

They can export common species of fish, trilos, or keichousaurs since they are very numerous and of little to no scientific value. Larger reptiles/vertebrates and scientifically significant invertebrates are forbidden from being exports.

I own several real fish and trilobites and an insect from China

I own one fish that has been "enhanced" by paint, to make it look more complete, but I know some American sellers of Green River fish and Lebanese sellers of fish/shrimp who "enhance/restore" specimens to make them more desireable to collectors.

Regards,

*********************************

Misterdorsh,

Welcome to the Forum.

If they are within your price range, I think # 3 and # 4 are the better looking specimens.

Of course, keep in mind they may not be as complete looking as the refurbs, but If prepped out carefully might look fantastic.

I prefer the natural look - as found, rather than the "Perfectly complete" specimens.

Unless, of course they were actually found that way.

Good luck, with whatever you decide.

Regards,

Edited May 13, 2015 by Fossildude19

[snolly50]

It's impossible to make a truly informed decision without the piece in hand. That said, I can't imagine that a dealer would have "manufactured" Keichs completely embedded in faux matrix; especially since the dealer was not advertising unprepped pieces for sale. What would be the point?

If the price was <$100, I would make such a purchase, given the info available; just to have the fun of prepping it out. That's me, your mileage may vary.

[misterdorsh]

This is not entirely true.

They can export common species of fish, trilos, or keichousaurs since they are very numerous and of little to no scientific value. Larger reptiles/vertebrates and scientifically significant invertebrates are forbidden from being exports.

I own several real fish and trilobites and an insect from China

I own one fish that has been "enhanced" by paint, to make it look more complete, but I know some American sellers of Green River fish and Lebanese sellers of fish/shrimp who "enhance/restore" specimens to make them more desireable to collectors.

Regards,

*********************************

Misterdorsh,

Welcome to the Forum.

If they are within your price range, I think # 3 and # 4 are the better looking specimens.

Of course, keep in mind they may not be as complete looking as the refurbs, but If prepped out carefully might look fantastic.

I prefer the natural look - as found, rather than the "Perfectly complete" specimens.

Unless, of course they were actually found that way.

Good luck, with whatever you decide.

Regards,

Hi Fossildude19 - thanks for the warm welcome and reply. I would agree, the 3rd and 4th specimens posted have the best distinctive features. The natural look is more alluring to me too, so I might take a bite. I'll update this thread as I gather information - perhaps I'll make a purchase

It's impossible to make a truly informed decision without the piece in hand. That said, I can't imagine that a dealer would have "manufactured" Keichs completely embedded in faux matrix; especially since the dealer was not advertising unprepped pieces for sale. What would be the point?

If the price was <$100, I would make such a purchase, given the info available; just to have the fun of prepping it out. That's me, your mileage may vary.

Hi snolly50 - great point; the seller has no reasons for creating unprepped specimens without a motive to sell (unless of course they're getting that crafty). I'll see how low I can get on the price, and also wager the "legitimacy" on that. A typical, unprepared Keich I would assume is ~200 USD (depends on the preservation status), and, from what I've seen, the lowest prepared / modified is roughly ~500 USD, for a reasonable piece. This doesn't include the <100 USD-valued on eBay.

I'll take a stab at prices. Who knows - as I've said to Fossildude19, perhaps I'll commit to a purchase.

Thanks for your insight -

Justin

[snolly50]

Hi snolly50 - great point; the seller has no reasons for creating unprepped specimens without a motive to sell (unless of course they're getting that crafty). I'll see how low I can get on the price, and also wager the "legitimacy" on that. A typical, unprepared Keich I would assume is ~200 USD (depends on the preservation status), and, from what I've seen, the lowest prepared / modified is roughly ~500 USD, for a reasonable piece. This doesn't include the <100 USD-valued on eBay.

I'll take a stab at prices. Who knows - as I've said to Fossildude19, perhaps I'll commit to a purchase.

Thanks for your insight -

Hello Justin, I don't see unprepped Keichosaurs offered; but my gut says "$100 or less." These are very common fossils, then again so are Megalodon teeth and they bring big numbers because of demand. All in all, 500 frogskins!, I don't see the value there. Of course, I'm skeptical and cheap. Has the seller mentioned any figure on the unprepped pieces shown? One metric would be comparison of that seller's prepped "ask" to what is quoted on a raw specimen. I don't know that matrix (therefore difficulty), but done correctly, it would no doubt involve hours of prep. I'd be interested in learning the price on the unprepped material, should you decide to pursue this quest.

[jpc]

I think the unprepped ones are likely real. I agree w snolly: Although I am not familiar with the matrix, I have handled a few of these over the years, and checked them out with a preparator's eye. My guess is that these things are pretty challenging to do a good job on. A binocular microscope is a must for those tiny bones. I know some folks do acid prep on them. You can do a lousy job just by running a wire brush over them and scraping away half of the bone. But why even other?

Edited May 14, 2015 by jpc

[Redlichia]

Hi,

all these are 100% genuine, the same for the first already prepped, is original but a little bit disassembled but genuine and very nice!

The #3 and #4 are very nice but need long preparation, because maybe are in hard rocks....and the bones are more fragile if you use an air pen, with acid preparation is possible with hydrochloric acid diluted 1 to 10 but you have to be careful and you have to know the exact timing because unlike the bones wear out easily and quickly, the same with formic acid or KOH also is good, and then you continue to alternate with the air pen, but if you haven't experience of preparation with acid or air tools I council to buy one prepped.

Good luck!

[jpc]

quoting Redlichia: but if you haven't experience of preparation with acid or air tools I council to buy one prepped.
Good luck!

Well said.

[nathanzx10r]

Can you PM me the sellers name, I would love to have an unprepped one. Also, here is a thread I just did more my Ebay special http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/54623-my-79-ebay-keichousaurus-microscope-photos/