sgs_neptune Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Any info is appreciated! Cheers, Susanne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 (edited) Yes your tooth is a great white, Carcharodon carcharias and a very nice one for a beach find. The "deer clam" is a cast of some type of clam shell. Never heard "deer clam" before though. Edited June 7, 2015 by sixgill pete Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgs_neptune Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Great! Thank you. I was shocked and jumped up and down on the beach! Ha! deer heart clam is what I'm seeing online, but I'm just not sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgs_neptune Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Please note... I was in the soft sand, lightly digging about six inches down with a plastic spade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyrannosaurusRex Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Those are indeed the steinkerns of deer heart clams. Nice! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Yes, the local name for those bivalve steinkerns is "deer hearts". "Deer Clam" is just the next step in the evolution of the vernacular. I kinda' like local common names for things "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgs_neptune Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Wonderful, thank you! What can anyone tell me about age of clam and tooth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 The tooth is Late Miocene / Pliocene probably. Around 1.7 to 5 MYO I would say. The clam would have to be positively ID'd to a species level to guess an accurate age. The area around MB is known for fossils from the Cretaceous as well as Miocene / Pliocene / Pleistocene. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggieCie Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Nice find. PS. sounds like that local slang stuff kicking in........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgs_neptune Posted June 8, 2015 Author Share Posted June 8, 2015 Marvelous!! Wow... So fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 always heard the Peedee steinkerns called "Turtle Heads" at Myrtle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceros Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Really, the rhino guy has to give the clam's scientific name? We're not talking about an exotic species here. They are two (phosphatic?) steinkerns of paired valves of the clam Cucullaea vulgaris Morton, 1830, from the lt. Maastrichtian upper Peedee Fm. The sharp slits in the upper posterior of the steinkern (shell ridges in the original shells) are distinctive of Cucullaea. I hate having to do this here, but you guys are forcing me to defend scientific nomenclature on Fossil Forum - this really shouldn't be necessary, if this is an educational service, as Auspex insists it is (that was him up there, defending "local common names for things"), and not just a "look at what I found" service, as in the rest of the internet. Now I like local names too, but the problem is that local names often aren't understood everywhere, as scientific names are. This is a very widespread species, all across the Lt. Cret. beds of the Gulf and Atlantic Coastal Plain. If FF wants fossils from South Carolina to be properly compared to similar fossils in Mississippi and New Jersey (from where it was named) - identifiers are going to have to use scientific names, along with any other name that strikes their fancy. Dr. Diceros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I will go so far as to acknowledge that these are steinkerns of members of the family Culcullaeidae ("False Ark Shells"), but I wouldn't begin to know which trivial species name to assign (they existed right through the Paleocene and into the Eocene, also). There are lots to choose from, and I don't know how to do it from a worn internal mold. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njfossilhunter Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Really, the rhino guy has to give the clam's scientific name? We're not talking about an exotic species here. They are two (phosphatic?) steinkerns of paired valves of the clam Cucullaea vulgaris Morton, 1830, from the lt. Maastrichtian upper Peedee Fm. The sharp slits in the upper posterior of the steinkern (shell ridges in the original shells) are distinctive of Cucullaea. I hate having to do this here, but you guys are forcing me to defend scientific nomenclature on Fossil Forum - this really shouldn't be necessary, if this is an educational service, as Auspex insists it is (that was him up there, defending "local common names for things"), and not just a "look at what I found" service, as in the rest of the internet. Now I like local names too, but the problem is that local names often aren't understood everywhere, as scientific names are. This is a very widespread species, all across the Lt. Cret. beds of the Gulf and Atlantic Coastal Plain. If FF wants fossils from South Carolina to be properly compared to similar fossils in Mississippi and New Jersey (from where it was named) - identifiers are going to have to use scientific names, along with any other name that strikes their fancy. Dr. Diceros There are people here on the forum that don't know a lot of scientific names and if someone choose to use a common name then good for them. This is a great forum for all people to enjoy from the little kid next door to the PHD's ....So give it a rest.....as I said this is a site for everyone. TonyThe Brooks Are Like A Box Of Chocolates,,,, You Never Know What You'll Find. I Told You I Don't Have Alzheimer's.....I Have Sometimers. Some Times I Remember And Some Times I Forget.... I Mostly Forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichW9090 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) Learning the proper scientific name for things is important. Claiming that it is too difficult for kids is just silly, and claiming it is too difficult or inconvenient for adults just makes them look lazy. The reason we have those names is to allow communication without confusion. Common names vary from locality to locality, as we can see from a fossil steinkern called by one person in the thread above a deer clam, by another a deer heart, and by a third a turtle head. Who would ever suspect the three were the same? The ability to attach full scientific names to a fossil varies from person to person, whether a paleontologist, a dealer, a collector or just a an interested person. This is a site for everyone. For everyone to learn. Learn as much, or as little as you want. But yes, give it a rest. Stop complaining about someone who is willing to provide detailed information. Edited June 9, 2015 by RichW9090 The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceros Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Thanks Rich. The only thing I'm trying to do (admittedly, trying hard), here in Fossil ID, is to be informative. The newbies all understand that, and appreciate it. A few of the advanced members see an academic reply as an obscure attack on themselves, which it most certainly isn't. They say the site's for everyone, but they don't mean it. As you say, they need to take that phrase to heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmerlin Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) Thanks Rich. The only thing I'm trying to do (admittedly, trying hard), here in Fossil ID, is to be informative. The newbies all understand that, and appreciate it. A few of the advanced members see an academic reply as an obscure attack on themselves, which it most certainly isn't. They say the site's for everyone, but they don't mean it. As you say, they need to take that phrase to heart. As a relative newbie Id like to take the opportunity to thank all the more experienced and expert members here such as yourself for the information and help you provide . I like to read your explanations and information and enjoy pursuing follow up reading on the subject being discussed in the various posts where you have helped with identifications on this subject I pursued some information on scientific names as I realized my own understanding of the subject is fairly basic I think this link is useful so I thought I would post it here as I think others such as myself may find it informative and useful http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binomial_nomenclature best regards Chris Edited June 9, 2015 by ckmerlin "A man who stares at a rock must have a lot on his mind... or nothing at all' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmerlin Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 OOPs please forgive my ignorance and bad manners to the original poster Sgs-neptune Welcome to the forum , nice finds and I hope we will see more of your finds here soon best regards Chris "A man who stares at a rock must have a lot on his mind... or nothing at all' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceros Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Very informative link, ckmerlin. Thank you for posting it. At 1,134 posts, you haven't been a newbie in a very long time. I don't mean to say all advanced members are so touchy (most are perfectly nice), but a few are just mean-spirited. By the way, I have copies of Morton (1830a &b - refs. blow) right here, and the species was named from a New Jersey steinkern (Morton, 1830a, p. 285 - in those early days, you didn't also need to figure a type specimen for a name to be valid), and a bit later (Morton, 1830b, p. 245; pl. 3, fig. 21) figured by one. Steinkerns have been a bit insulted here - people have been naming steinkerns from the American Cretaceous (which Morton didn't identify in America till 1833) literally since 1820 - the ammonites Baculites ovatus Say, 1820, and Placenticeras placenta (DeKay, 1828), were both named from partial steinkerns. Morton, Samuel George (1795-1851 - Father of American Invertebrate Paleontology, then only 35), 1830a. Synopsis of the organic remains of the Ferruginous Sand Formation [as the American Cretaceous was then called] of the United States; with geological remarks. American Journal of Science, ser. 1, vol. 17, no. 2, pp. 274-295 (no figs.). Morton, S. G., 1830b. Ibid., vol. 18, no. 2, pp. 243-250, 3 pls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 one can know and choose not to be specific Dr. Diceros. I agree with your ID and the Myrtle Beach Peedee Formation Cuculllea steinkerns have been discussed and identified on earlier posts if I'm not mistaken. This inquiry did need a more specific answer I suppose but I was commenting on the vernacular name. I had never heard them called "Deer Hearts" previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgs_neptune Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 Wow... Sigh. Thanks all! Very interesting things here and I'm incredibly grateful for the passion you have, not to mention the time you all put in recognizing my post. I plan on framing my "hearts" in a shadow box, with the names given here as the background. All the best-Cheers, Susanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceros Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Don - Nothing whatever wrong with deer clam, deer heart, or turtle head - they're good local names, but a universal name is also needed. That's all I'm saying. One of the things I like best about the Forum, is that it exists both locally and internationally. Earl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceros Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Good plan, Susanne! Sometimes posts go off in different directions, which is often a good thing. Yours just got into the wonderful world of fossil names. Earl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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