FLINTandBONE Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Does anyone use any of these scoops or something similar for river or stream sifting? . It seems to me like it would be advantageous to only need one tool to both scoop and sift. This would eliminate the amount of gear you would need and you would never need to bring the scoop out of the water when sifting except when eyeballing or picking through the contents. That makes me think that you could increase the amount of gravel that you could process. I see that most people use a shovel and sieve, is this due to personal preference or is there something wrong with the scoop method? If you have a scoop that you use which you have made please post it because I'm looking for design ideas before I attempt to make one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacha Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I know allot of guys use the scoop or flea rake approach at the beach several supplement their shovel and screen with a scoop for deep spots in the river. The advantage of the shovel and screen is that the volume of material processed is much higher and after being out with us you know that there are 2 factors important to finding decent stuff. 1) Pick the right spot and 2) Process a LOT of material Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixgill pete Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Liek Sacha said; 1- the amount of material I can process with a shovel and screen is probably ten fold. 2- I also can use different mesh sizes depending on what is available in the formation I am screening in and what I am looking for. Many of the places I search, some of the best specimens are small, 1/4 inch or less and would fall right through your sifters. Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt behind the trailer, my desert Them red clay piles are heaven on earth I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers May 2016 May 2012 Aug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 Oct 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Sifters (if they are large enough) allow you to spread out the material and sort methodically through the pile. I shake all the sifted gravel to one side of my sifter and then angle the front edge down while resting the back edge on the shovel handle which I have planted firmly in the river bed marking my digging spot. I then spread a little of the gravel into the middle of the screen so it is spread out and in a single level with none of the gravel hiding anything beneath it. Once I've searched through that gravel I push it down toward the front of the screen and pull some new material from the back. This methodical method of searching through all of the gravel helps me ensure that I've missed very little that has been caught in my sifter. I've seen people use various forms of flea rakes instead of shovels mainly because things don't fall off a bucket-shaped flea rake the way it can off a shovel. I knew one person who was so worried that the big meg teeth he wasn't finding in the river must have been due to them all falling off his flat shovel blade so he switched to a flea rake. I'd suggest that any of the pictured flea rakes could be used (though one does not have a long handle and would not be useful in waist deep water). I'd still use this as an alternative to a shovel and scoop my finds into a screen with either 1/4" mesh or 1/2" mesh depending on what you are looking for and what might be found in the area. If you have enough small shark teeth and are on the hunt for larger quarry like megs, horse teeth, etc. then you can process tons (possibly literally) more material with a 1/2" mesh. A lot more work moving more material but more efficient if you don't mind missing the smaller fossils (which sometimes can be quite interesting). A few times the conditions make me wish I had a flea rake to try but mostly I'm quite content with a sturdy pointed spade--I say sturdy as I've already broken 3 of them in the river. I'd never consider giving up my sifting screen nor my fiberglass probe that I use for searching for gravel deposits. Hope this helps. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I have made large sifters with different screen sizes. I like to spread out my material to see it better. My biggest worry is loosing tiny specimens why smaller screens. I also think you can process much more material than scoops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgehiker Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) I rarely scoop unless I'm in an area I want to try something different. However...in my trunk I have a shovel and set of geology sieves. I much prefer a shovel so I can 'dig in' and get a lot of material. Or, get down to a lower level quickly. I also like a variety of sieve sizes so I can choose one according to what I'm doing. Anyways, I find it much easier to focus on some general size of specimen than to collect everything. Instead of 'missing' something large or small...I find more specimens in the long run by concentrating on one size or the other. This also is more productive in other fossil exploration...in the badlands I can walk for hours looking for larger specimens on the surface...or I can spend hours on my hands and knees, eyes a few inches off the ground. I find more things when my mindset is in some type of search mode. As for quality. ..heavy duty. Steel shovel and steel sieves. My set is sturdy and has lasted for a few decades. Edited August 22, 2015 by Ridgehiker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLINTandBONE Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 I definitely do want to process as much material as possible but feel like I was missing out on finding larger items by not being able to see into the water to the bottom. I am thinking that a hand scoop with about an 8 inch diameter opening for use while snorkeling would allow me to visually hunt the bottom as well as search out the smaller items while digging and sifting with the same tool. Since I would be in the water anything that is too big for the opening or doesn't go in will likely still be visible. I wonder how many fossils I hit with the shovel that I didn't scoop up with it or how many fell off it while bringing it to the surface, as was mentioned. I think I may try the tried and true method that is recommended but also try something like this as well. If I do fabricate something I will be sure to come up with something that will allow switching between 1/4 and half inch mesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbshark Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I like to use a regular shovel for digging and when the hole starts to fall in on itself I'll use a shark tooth take periodically to scoop in and around it. Sacha turned me on to 1/2 inch from 1/4 in my sifter and I haven't looked back: ) I can easily put a couple yards thru my sifter in a day and instead of 8-10 shovels I can fit 12 -15 depending on the size of the material Every once in a great while it's not just a big rock down there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caldigger Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Flint&Bone, I'll point out something that may not seem obvious. The reason shovels work so well is leverage. Standing on the ground and using the handle as leverage to push against the material you are digging. If you are floating in the water ( snorkeling) and attempting to scoop material with the long handled sieve/scoop, you will only pull yourself along in the water being that, that motion will be the force of least resistance. Unless you are working in water that is shallow enough to stand up in without any buoyancy. I'm not sure where and how deep you are hunting in. I have always found shoveling is the superior method of material extraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLINTandBONE Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 Flint&Bone, I'll point out something that may not seem obvious. The reason shovels work so well is leverage. Standing on the ground and using the handle as leverage to push against the material you are digging. If you are floating in the water ( snorkeling) and attempting to scoop material with the long handled sieve/scoop, you will only pull yourself along in the water being that, that motion will be the force of least resistance. Unless you are working in water that is shallow enough to stand up in without any buoyancy. I'm not sure where and how deep you are hunting in. I have always found shoveling is the superior method of material extraction. Yes I agree that does make sense. The river that I am referring to is the Peace and the parts of it that I will be in based on my only experience were maybe 3.5 feet deep. Just deep enough for using a snorkel and goggles, I think. Unfortunately I don't have much ability for trial and error since I live in Pa. Therefore I am trying to pick the brains of those among you whom are infinitely more knowledgeable and experienced than I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toofuntahh Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'm working on a implement made out of pvc pipe with a cap on one end any ideas on a digging/shifting tool for the end? I've seen many different ones used at the Calvert cliffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Sounds interesting. What type of implement are you trying to create? Where are you looking to use it? I can tell you that any substantial length of PVC pipe will be both flexible and brittle if any more than minor bending pressure is applied to it. So if you are thinking about making something like a shoveling/scooping implement, make sure you are not planning on overstressing the PVC or you could end up with a sharp break and an unwanted injury in the field. For a shorter length (say 30 cm in length) you might be able to fortify a piece of PVC tubing by filling it with something like 5-minute epoxy or some other strong glue. Always interested to hear about new gear so give us a clue as to what you are trying to engineer. Cheers. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toofuntahh Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'm thinking about using it strictly at the cliffs. I won't be using it to dig with but more of a scraper to sift the teeth on the surface of the sand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toofuntahh Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 It's one inch PVC ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Sounds like you are engineering something like the "Florida Snow Shovel" aka Sand Flea Rake as pictured at the top of this post. Sounds like you'll be using the PVC handle to pull a sifting attachment along. PVC is pretty strong when linearly compressed or stretched (just not so much when bent) so it sounds like that would work just fine. Not sure what you could use to make the sifting attachment at the end. Maybe others can suggest something they've used for similar tools. If you can't come up with a usable attachment you might look into buying a flea rake online if that would serve your needs. Let us know how this turns out. Cheers. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I used to occasionally employ a plastic leaf rake to drag material from the wave swash zone up onto the beach. This was useful at less-than-ideal tide heights. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace river rat Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I fabricated my own bottom scraper out of small welded steel tubing, it is a triangle shaped wedge about 8 inches high and 1 ft wide and about I foot deep and used 1/4 inch mesh. I can process as much gravel as most sifters can. The store bought ones are to small. The welded steel is holding up well to heavy use this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam28 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Sacha is exactly right. I guess some people think fossils just pop up if you dig in any spot deep enough. In reality they can be anywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace river rat Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 2 hours ago, Cam28 said: Sacha is exactly right. I guess some people think fossils just pop up if you dig in any spot deep enough. In reality they can be anywhere Most spots where I dig in Arcadia, the gravel is a foot and a half deep. I tried digging down even 3 more feet and hit only sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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