Hadrosaur Egg

[mudbug]

I've seen some discussion about whether or not the dendrolithic hadrosaur eggs coming out of Malaysia are authentic, so I bought one (the seller will refund my money if I choose to return it). I'll list the positive and negative aspects of the egg, and let you decide for yourselves if it is authentic. Your decision may play a large part in whether or not I decide to keep it.

Positive:

Weight: This thing is heavy 3.8 kg (6.4 lbs.) according to the paper work.

Size: Approximately 6"L x 5"W x 3"H (not including matrix).

Fractures in the egg shell line up with each other. In other words the pieces if placed together could fit like pieces in a puzzle. This seems to be consistent throughout the surface of the egg.

Cracks in the matrix at the bottom (actually the top because the eggs are excavated from the bottom) of the egg continue through the surface of the egg.

What caused the cracks in the egg around the egg/matrix interface. Possibly stress fractures caused by removal of excess rock surrounding the egg.

Two different layers of substrate in the matrix.

Shape, size and texture seems to be consistent with other eggs I have seen, however I'm not an expert and have not had a close up look at a lot of these. And one would have to consider whether or not the ones I have seen are authentic. Also, it could easily be a naturally occurring concretion as well.

Negative:

What caused the cracks around the bottom, of the egg. next to the egg/matrix interface? Possibly caused by uneven expansion or contraction of the egg/matrix interface during the manufacturing process.

Spaces between shell pieces may be too perfect. I'm sure this could be reproduced without too much effort.

Substance on the surface of the egg appears to be glue.

Also found some of this substance (very little) in the space between egg shell pieces. When I pulled it out it seemed to come

out from under/between egg shell and material between the pieces of egg shell (possible repair?). Nothing fluoresced under black light, however, I don't know if my light is short wave or long wave.

An area where a chisel or other tool, used to remove the excess matrix, hit the area between egg shell pieces is a bright white (kind of like plaster) and very soft. However areas where the chisel/tool was used to remove matrix is also white.

Two different layers of substrate in the matrix. I'm sure this could be reproduced (see above).

Anyway I would appreciate your feedback on this, and any other ideas how to determine if this item is authentic.

[Troodon]

Question are you saying this egg was found in Malaysia or is being imported from China and sold in Malaysia

[Troodon]

The egg looks more suspicious to me than real

[Ridgehiker]

"Shape, size and texture seems to be consistent with other eggs I have seen, however I'm not an expert and have not had a close up look at a lot of these. And one would have to consider whether or not the ones I have seen are authentic."

At least you have the sense to understand that 99% of the 'real eggs' people compare their fake egg to are also fakes.

It's a fake.

[Troodon]

I always find it difficult to make a call on an egg with pictures. I like to hold it and look at the texture.

Attached find closeups of a two different eggs same size and shape as your. The texture is not smooth but rough with the eggshell fractured in spots. Try comparing these with your egg.

[mudbug]

The item was purchased from a seller in Malaysia. I assume it originated in China.

I'm suspicious of all dinosaur eggs offered for sale, however I wanted a more definitive answer on the subject than I was getting from what I was reading on this forum. And I would like to give the seller and ebay a better answer than "I think it is fake" if I decide to return it.

Anyway, I would appreciate feedback from other members.

Thanks!

the

[mudbug]

Troodon

Thanks for posting the pictures. There are some rough spots like in your pictures, however not all over the surface of the egg. The rest of the egg while not really smooth is not near as rough.

[-Andy-]

Your egg doesn't strike me as being real. The eggshells do not look like the hadrosaur eggs I know to be real, and the base is akin to those they churn out by the hundreds in Chinese factories.

Here's mine; you can compare the surface.

[mudbug]

Yes, I would have to agree my egg does not look like any of the pictures posted and all the responses so far have indicated that it is a fake. I have been leaning in that direction since I received it, however as I said I am not an expert and wanted the opinions of others who may be more familiar with dino eggs. I did not want to accuse the seller of any wrongdoing based on my opinion alone. And the seller may not know it himself. I hope this will help out anyone else who is looking at buying one of these eggs.

I intend to contact the seller about returning this item. Based on communications I have had with the seller I don't think there will be a problem. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

[HamptonsDoc]

I just bought 4 eggs from probably the same dealer from Malaysia. One has arrived so far, another scheduled for today and one for tomorrow. I have the same questions. I have a very experienced collector friend who I am going to bring them to to see what he says this weekend. The cracks in the egg seem a little too perfect and superficial, almost as if they have been etched. It is very difficult for a new collector to authenticate any fossils since they're not something that are easily found to compare to in person. I have one Hadrosaur egg that I bought last month at the Springfield, Mass. show from a known dealer and my Malaysian egg just looks different. Since the variability from these eggs in pictures on the internet is so great, I want to show my to someone who is experienced before I jump to any conclusions.

I attempted to upload pictures but it doesn't seem to be working. Will keep trying...

[HamptonsDoc]

I just bought 4 eggs from probably the same dealer from Malaysia. One has arrived so far, another scheduled for today and one for tomorrow. I have the same questions. I have a very experienced collector friend who I am going to bring them to to see what he says this weekend. The cracks in the egg seem a little too perfect and superficial, almost as if they have been etched. It is very difficult for a new collector to authenticate any fossils since they're not something that are easily found to compare to in person. I have one Hadrosaur egg that I bought last month at the Springfield, Mass. show from a known dealer and my Malaysian egg just looks different. Since the variability from these eggs in pictures on the internet is so great, I want to show my to someone who is experienced before I jump to any conclusions.

I attempted to upload pictures but it doesn't seem to be working. Will keep trying...

My second egg I bought from the Malaysian dealer just arrived. While in pictures it looks very close to the first, in person it has some definite differences. This one is slightly larger, more shell exposed and less matrix. The matrix is made up of the same dirt with similar inclusions seen in it. The cracks do not appear to be etched as I described the first one as appearing. The surface is not as smooth and even as the other. My second egg does have slight cracking around the base as seen in the images from the original post, the first egg does not have this. This egg doesn't shout fabrication to me, although there is definitely an area where glue is visible, I suppose from restoration?

Excuse my ignorance but I am new to all of this. Could it be that these eggs are just collected from different area than most of the other available Hadrosaur eggs and that gives them this different appearance? I asked the Malaysian seller where these eggs are from. The first time he said they are originally from Xiaxia Provence and when I asked how he gets them he gave me a vague response of "we source it through a supplier."

I'm sure many of you have seen this other thread (http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/53626-hadrosaur-egg-ebay-scam/) but someone else bought one form this guy and broke it open to see if its real or not. The consensus on authenticity in the discussion is mixed.

I'll let you guys know how the third and fourth eggs that are in the mail look and what my dino expert thinks of them.

Here are my two Malaysian bought eggs with my Springfield, Mass show egg in the center for comparison:

Both Malaysian eggs:

Malaysian egg 1 top view:

Malaysian egg 1 side view:

Malaysian egg 1 matrix view (Chinese for stupid american?):

Malaysian egg 2 top view:

Malaysian egg 2 side view:

Malaysian egg 2. Glue on side?:

Malaysian egg 2 matrix view:

Edited September 4, 2015 by HamptonsDoc

[Troodon]

The eggs look identical to the ones posted by mudbug. Do you see the detail and eggshell that are visible in the images of post #5 & 8?

[Dracorex_hogwartsia]

No dinosaur eggs have been reported or discovered in Malaysia as far as I am aware. Just recently, the first dinosaur fossil ever found in Malaysia was discovered. It was a tooth.

[HamptonsDoc]

No dinosaur eggs have been reported or discovered in Malaysia as far as I am aware. Just recently, the first dinosaur fossil ever found in Malaysia was discovered. It was a tooth.

They are supposed Chinese eggs bought from a dealer in Malaysia. Sorry for the confusion!

[Ridgehiker]

I just bought 4 eggs from probably the same dealer from Malaysia. One has arrived so far, another scheduled for today and one for tomorrow. I have the same questions. I have a very experienced collector friend who I am going to bring them to to see what he says this weekend.

What exactly is an 'experienced collector friend' who knows dinosaur eggs. I live in a region where dinosaur eggs are found. I have been to two nest sites that have been researched. I have found egg shell, etc.

I would not be able to tell a real egg from a good fake. If any one tells you that an egg looks like their 'real' egg, then ask them how they know that their own egg is 'real'. If they didn't find it themselves and have complete documentation then it is almost certainly not a Dino egg. The Chinese are not stupid but experienced technicians who use the latest in technology to produce quality fakes in everything from Rolex watches to Gibson Guitars to Dino eggs.

[-Andy-]

If they didn't find it themselves and have complete documentation then it is almost certainly not a Dino egg.

I didn't find any of my own dinosaur eggs, and I have 9 in my cabinet right now. Are you saying they are not dino eggs?

The Chinese are not stupid but experienced technicians who use the latest in technology to produce quality fakes in everything from Rolex watches to Gibson Guitars to Dino eggs.

Just because the Chinese are good at faking stuff doesn't mean we should dismiss fossils that come out from there. There are definitive ways of testing for dinosaur eggs, such as weight, shell textures, matrix removal etc. And if you're still unsure, send it to a prepping team.

[Sinopaleus]

I didn't find any of my own dinosaur eggs, and I have 9 in my cabinet right now. Are you saying they are not dino eggs?

Just because the Chinese are good at faking stuff doesn't mean we should dismiss fossils that come out from there. There are definitive ways of testing for dinosaur eggs, such as weight, shell textures, matrix removal etc. And if you're still unsure, send it to a prepping team.

Andy, a prepping team would not be necessary using a scalpel or carving instrument will be more than sufficient to pry away the underlying matrix.

My second egg I bought from the Malaysian dealer just arrived. While in pictures it looks very close to the first, in person it has some definite differences. This one is slightly larger, more shell exposed and less matrix. The matrix is made up of the same dirt with similar inclusions seen in it. The cracks do not appear to be etched as I described the first one as appearing. The surface is not as smooth and even as the other. My second egg does have slight cracking around the base as seen in the images from the original post, the first egg does not have this. This egg doesn't shout fabrication to me, although there is definitely an area where glue is visible, I suppose from restoration?

Excuse my ignorance but I am new to all of this. Could it be that these eggs are just collected from different area than most of the other available Hadrosaur eggs and that gives them this different appearance? I asked the Malaysian seller where these eggs are from. The first time he said they are originally from Xiaxia Provence and when I asked how he gets them he gave me a vague response of "we source it through a supplier."

I'm sure many of you have seen this other thread (http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/53626-hadrosaur-egg-ebay-scam/) but someone else bought one form this guy and broke it open to see if its real or not. The consensus on authenticity in the discussion is mixed.

I'll let you guys know how the third and fourth eggs that are in the mail look and what my dino expert thinks of them.

Here are my two Malaysian bought eggs with my Springfield, Mass show egg in the center for comparison:

image1.JPG

Both Malaysian eggs:

image6.JPG

Malaysian egg 1 top view:

image2.JPG

Malaysian egg 1 side view:

image3.JPG

Malaysian egg 1 matrix view (Chinese for stupid american?):

image1.JPG

Malaysian egg 2 top view:

image5.JPG

Malaysian egg 2 side view:

image3.JPG

Malaysian egg 2. Glue on side?:

image4.JPG

Malaysian egg 2 matrix view:

image2.JPG

HamptonsDoc, as a person who is exposed to such kinds of fossils for a number of years, I have to say that in my opinion, those eggs are fake The coloring of the egg shells is in a different shade than the usual dinosaur egg from either Xixia or Nanxiong. The cracks in those pictures seem to be manmade from a number of possible substances.. Usually there are notable micro-crevices in the cracks in authentic eggs, though there are some authentic eggs where this is slightly less apparent. Is it possible to refund these eggs?

Anyways, in any case, purchasing vertebrate fossils from China is considered to be illegal, and one would be supporting an unlawful black market where consequences can be death sentences for those who break the law. Please do think twice next time if faced with smuggled fossils from places like China, Mongolia and Brazil.

They are supposed Chinese eggs bought from a dealer in Malaysia. Sorry for the confusion!

Yes, these eggs are modeled after the classic Dendroolithidae eggs of the Xixia Basin

My second egg I bought from the Malaysian dealer just arrived. While in pictures it looks very close to the first, in person it has some definite differences. This one is slightly larger, more shell exposed and less matrix. The matrix is made up of the same dirt with similar inclusions seen in it. The cracks do not appear to be etched as I described the first one as appearing. The surface is not as smooth and even as the other. My second egg does have slight cracking around the base as seen in the images from the original post, the first egg does not have this. This egg doesn't shout fabrication to me, although there is definitely an area where glue is visible, I suppose from restoration?

Excuse my ignorance but I am new to all of this. Could it be that these eggs are just collected from different area than most of the other available Hadrosaur eggs and that gives them this different appearance? I asked the Malaysian seller where these eggs are from. The first time he said they are originally from Xiaxia Provence and when I asked how he gets them he gave me a vague response of "we source it through a supplier."

I'm sure many of you have seen this other thread (http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/53626-hadrosaur-egg-ebay-scam/) but someone else bought one form this guy and broke it open to see if its real or not. The consensus on authenticity in the discussion is mixed.

I'll let you guys know how the third and fourth eggs that are in the mail look and what my dino expert thinks of them.

Here are my two Malaysian bought eggs with my Springfield, Mass show egg in the center for comparison:

image1.JPG

Both Malaysian eggs:

image6.JPG

Malaysian egg 1 top view:

image2.JPG

Malaysian egg 1 side view:

image3.JPG

Malaysian egg 1 matrix view (Chinese for stupid american?):

image1.JPG

Malaysian egg 2 top view:

image5.JPG

Malaysian egg 2 side view:

image3.JPG

Malaysian egg 2. Glue on side?:

image4.JPG

Malaysian egg 2 matrix view:

image2.JPG

I forgot to add, a common technique is that the egg is first created, and then placed in a fake-matrix and left to harden. This is an attempt to fool those who try to dig a little bit into the matrix for fossil authenticity verification.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Sinopaleus

[Troodon]

Photos can be one of the harder methods of identifying eggs especially if they are good fakes. They don't often allow one to see the detail eggshell structure, depth and faults. Most eggs of this type have faults, fractures and are missing small pieces of shell, that's a fossil. It's not perfect why its hard to replicate. Matrix is easy to fake so detail examination of where it meets the eggshell is also necessary. Weight can be faked. IMO its very hard to fabricate an egg that cannot be identified as a fake under examination of someone who knows what a real eggs should look like. My guess is that the Malaysian dealer could not identify a chicken egg from a dinosaur one.

Finally, I've seen a tons of beautiful eggs come out of China at the Tucson show before the export ban and I've never seen any documentation

[Sinopaleus]

What exactly is an 'experienced collector friend' who knows dinosaur eggs. I live in a region where dinosaur eggs are found. I have been to two nest sites that have been researched. I have found egg shell, etc.

I would not be able to tell a real egg from a good fake. If any one tells you that an egg looks like their 'real' egg, then ask them how they know that their own egg is 'real'. If they didn't find it themselves and have complete documentation then it is almost certainly not a Dino egg. The Chinese are not stupid but experienced technicians who use the latest in technology to produce quality fakes in everything from Rolex watches to Gibson Guitars to Dino eggs.

Canadawest, I'll take your phase as a compliment instead of with a grain of salt To be honest, we don't really have the latest technology at all to make your fake stuff. We just make your real stuff in the beginning, and just use poorer material for the "fake" stuff. That's the most common case for "fake" things from China (Oh shoo, we're just being resourceful ). As for dinosaur eggs, yes totally, we use cutting-edge laser technology to get the perfect identical shape of any dinosaur egg types, and re-configurate concrete on the molecular level to make the substance for the fake dinosaur eggs

I must say, congratulations on finding an eggshell at the two sites you visited! I'm sure you can tell the difference between that and a shard of clay (the most obvious case for mis-identified dinosaur egg shells). As a finder of a whole dinosaur nest in China on a paleontological expedition (coming out on paper soon, being prepped in the museum), I can tell you that there is an obvious difference (not obvious to the untrained and amateur eye) between an authentic egg and a forged egg, even if it is well crafted. Texture, hardness (if you're willing to break your shell in half), coloring and signs from the surrounding matrix are just a few clues to tell the difference between a fake and an authentic. Sometimes, the egg isn't the only clue as to if it is authentic or not. Matrix composition can tell a whole lot as well All in all, dinosaur eggs differ in size, shape, coloring, quantity and quality throughout the world. Just because an eggshell from Canada looks slightly indistinguishable does not mean all dinosaur eggs in the whole world are indistinguishable. Just something to keep in mind

[Redlichia]

Hi,

This egg is "nearly" the same type of this another egg from this topic : http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/53626-hadrosaur-egg-ebay-scam/

Of course this egg is 99% probable from China and the seller is from malaysia.

I see in 20 years several thousands of this type of egg around the world in the fossil shows, with this type of texture, with this type of colours, the same, I see in hand these eggs and for me are original eggs.

There are several type of dinosaurs eggs in China and Asia in general that are still unknow.... this photo below from the another topic is a new find zone full of new type of very nice dinosaur egg similar to this.....these are perfect eggs also because for luck are well preserved without compressions.

In China there are several thousands of eggs that still are in the ground, thousands in the badlands but also under the city, is a very big territory full of this fossils but not only.

"For me" is a real egg, is very difficult or nearly impossible make a fake egg with a "real calcite" shell with perfect cracks, also with a laser 3D printer the shell is with plastic or resin or organic mater-bi material and not with ink with liquid of calcite that after it is transformed into in hard calcite mineral......, for luck there is not a laser 3D printer with liquid of calcite or aragonite mineral!

I reply in another post that "maybe the asian sellers "sometime" they cut in half one egg and after they paste the two half parts in two matrixes for sell "two" eggs from one egg! The double earn.

Try to break a small piece of shell under the matrix and try to burn, if is fake you see the smoke and smell of plastic or resin, if not is a real shell.

Try to clean a small part under the original matrix with the hydrochloric acid, so you see if is a real shell, I think is a calcite the shell, after also you can see the original veins of the calcite or aragonite minerals of the shell.

Good luck!

The source of the photos is :

http://q13fox.com/2015/04/21/dozens-of-dinosaur-eggs-discovered-by-construction-workers-in-chinese-city/

[mudbug]

There still seem to be some mixed opinions on this subject. I decided to return the egg to the seller. Here,s what happened:

I contacted the selIer to let him/her know that I wanted to return the item, and he was OK with that. I went through ebay's return procedures notified the seller again of my intent to return the egg. I received an email from ebay stating that I now needed to request a return shipping label from the seller. The seller replied by sending his address. I requested the return shipping label again. The seller replied by providing his address again. I replied "this is an address not a return shipping label". The sellers reply was there is no option to do that in ebay or paypal. Frustrated I contacted ebay they told me that the seller was definitely required to supply the return shipping label and they would escalate my claim in which case ebay would contact the seller. The seller had 5 days to reply to ebay. He did not. At the end of 5 days ebay refunded all of my money including shipping charges. And I could keep the egg because the seller refused to provide the shipping label.

I thought that would be the end of it. The the seller started sending me threatening emails stating that he would take whatever legal means necessary to recover the egg. I again responded to the seller "I would be glad to return the item provide a return shipping label". The seller responded that he already had reported me to ebay and paypal (I already knew how that would turn out) and "The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C)". I'd never heard of The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) or the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C). Anyway I reported the seller to ebay and he/she has not tried to contact me since.

When I made the decision to buy the egg I was aware that it may not be authentic but felt fairly confident that I would be able to get my money back. I read a lot about how ebay is unsympathetic towards buyers. That has not been my experience and in talking to both sellers and buyers I find that in most cases ebay will side with the buyer. "Ebay wants the buyer to have a pleasant buying experience". I'm not so sure about the seller having a pleasant selling experience. You have to keep trying. I find that ebay will generally help out. If they don't try paypal. And I always make payment through paypal using my credit card because if paypal and ebay won't help out my CC company will. They always seem more than happy to step in.

And don't take the "NO RETURNS" snarge from the seller go through ebay's returns procedure. Remember "ebay wants the "buyer to have a pleasant buying experience".

Now back to the egg. Since I get to keep the egg I'm going to find someone who can tell me once and for all if the egg is authentic. I think I'll start by calling the Chicago Field Museum to see if they have anyone who would take a look at it (actually I just want to see Sue again). Apparently the debate will go on until someone can give a definitive answer on these eggs. Unfortunately we will probably have to check them all to know which, if any of the dino eggs are authentic. I encourage all who have purchased one of these eggs to have them professionally evaluated as to their authenticity. Let us know what you find out.

My thanks to all those who have contributed. And I would still like to hear from others who would like to join in on the discussion.

[HamptonsDoc]

There still seem to be some mixed opinions on this subject. I decided to return the egg to the seller. Here,s what happened:

I contacted the selIer to let him/her know that I wanted to return the item, and he was OK with that. I went through ebay's return procedures notified the seller again of my intent to return the egg. I received an email from ebay stating that I now needed to request a return shipping label from the seller. The seller replied by sending his address. I requested the return shipping label again. The seller replied by providing his address again. I replied "this is an address not a return shipping label". The sellers reply was there is no option to do that in ebay or paypal. Frustrated I contacted ebay they told me that the seller was definitely required to supply the return shipping label and they would escalate my claim in which case ebay would contact the seller. The seller had 5 days to reply to ebay. He did not. At the end of 5 days ebay refunded all of my money including shipping charges. And I could keep the egg because the seller refused to provide the shipping label.

I thought that would be the end of it. The the seller started sending me threatening emails stating that he would take whatever legal means necessary to recover the egg. I again responded to the seller "I would be glad to return the item provide a return shipping label". The seller responded that he already had reported me to ebay and paypal (I already knew how that would turn out) and "The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C)". I'd never heard of The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) or the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C). Anyway I reported the seller to ebay and he/she has not tried to contact me since.

When I made the decision to buy the egg I was aware that it may not be authentic but felt fairly confident that I would be able to get my money back. I read a lot about how ebay is unsympathetic towards buyers. That has not been my experience and in talking to both sellers and buyers I find that in most cases ebay will side with the buyer. "Ebay wants the buyer to have a pleasant buying experience". I'm not so sure about the seller having a pleasant selling experience. You have to keep trying. I find that ebay will generally help out. If they don't try paypal. And I always make payment through paypal using my credit card because if paypal and ebay won't help out my CC company will. They always seem more than happy to step in.

And don't take the "NO RETURNS" snarge from the seller go through ebay's returns procedure. Remember "ebay wants the "buyer to have a pleasant buying experience".

Now back to the egg. Since I get to keep the egg I'm going to find someone who can tell me once and for all if the egg is authentic. I think I'll start by calling the Chicago Field Museum to see if they have anyone who would take a look at it (actually I just want to see Sue again). Apparently the debate will go on until someone can give a definitive answer on these eggs. Unfortunately we will probably have to check them all to know which, if any of the dino eggs are authentic. I encourage all who have purchased one of these eggs to have them professionally evaluated as to their authenticity. Let us know what you find out.

My thanks to all those who have contributed. And I would still like to hear from others who would like to join in on the discussion.

Wow! Glad you got your money back though.

I showed 3 of the 4 eggs I ordered from this seller to my friend who has been collecting for 30+ years and he thinks that they are made of real shell, but with a lot of reconstruction to them. He said he was going to bring one to another friend of his who also has a large collection and knows much more about these than I do. The 4th and final egg I ordered from this seller is still in the mail. To be continued....

[Gevxena]

Hi everyone, I am new to collecting Fossils and recently bought one of those "Dinosaur Eggs" Coming out of Malaysia. I was wondering if anyone can tell me if this is an authentic Dinosaur egg? It's supposed to belong to a Hadrosaur...

[Gevxena]

Here are a few more photos.

BTW, The piece is very heavy and the egg itself literally also feels like a rock...

Edited September 17, 2015 by Gevxena

[Gevxena]

One last Photo...