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dinosaur man
17 minutes ago, Omnomosaurus said:

 

That's a good point actually. The terminology might just confuse matters more for people, especially when things like DSDI calculations already look scary enough if you're not familiar with them. Probably best to leave it out; especially with the ambiguity of the statements too.

 

I'll add the query on this to the list for Christophe... there'll be a novel for him before long, if the questions keep coming at this rate!

I agree just the other day I was having problems with the DSDI, probably will be very confusing to the other members.

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Omnomosaurus
22 minutes ago, dinosaur man said:

I agree just the other day I was having problems with the DSDI, probably will be very confusing to the other members.

 

Yeah, it took me time to wrap my head around it in the beginning too, since it seems pretty difficult to find resources that actually break down the basic method of how to calculate these sorts of things. That's one thing the forums are amazing for.

 

 

As this process concerns analysing denticles, I'll post the extremely fine serrations of my indet. tooth from Dinosaur Provincial Park for visual reference to others.

 

Distal Carina (9/5mm)

1578316997151.jpg.5bccd0b8640b505ea3a94f6519836628.jpg

 

Mesial Carina (19/5mm)

1578317060149.jpg.42d6fe160f67fecd5b600c6e5af5951f.jpg

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1 hour ago, Omnomosaurus said:

I'll add the query on this to the list for Christophe... there'll be a novel for him before long, if the questions keep coming at this rate!

I actually think he would appreciate the technical questions you'll ask him.  Shows you've studied his paper, have questions and are not just looking to get an ID .  Also eager to hear what he says about your tooth.  His method says Daspletosaurus lets see if he agrees 

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Omnomosaurus
1 hour ago, Troodon said:

I actually think he would appreciate the technical questions you'll ask him.  Shows you've studied his paper, have questions and are not just looking to get an ID .  Also eager to hear what he says about your tooth.  His method says Daspletosaurus lets see if he agrees 

 

Yeah, I guess he might appreciate some technical queries....If I get chance in the next couple of days, I'll put together an email to him covering the main questions we've raised around this method.

 

I'm interested to find out too, and hope he agrees with the Daspletosaurus ID, or its going to muddy the waters even more for us trying to ID other teeth!

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  • 7 months later...

I've recently had a little chat with Phil Currie around Tyrannosaurid teeth, and he mentioned the subject of enamel "crinkling".

 

Phil wasn't aware of any publication on the feature, but Jim Farlow apparently made the observation years ago that crinkling of the tooth enamel is a feature found solely on tyrannosaurine teeth, and is not present in those of the albertosaurinae.

 

Approx. 25% of tyrannosaurine teeth have enamel crinkles, but Phil is confident that the presence of them can be used as a diagnostic tool to confidently rule out the possibility of it belonging to an albertosaurine tyrannosaur.

 

A tooth lacking this enamel ornamentation can still belong to either the tyrannosaurine or albertosaurinae however.

 

Might be another useful diagnostic tool for a small portion of those Gorgosaurus/Daspletosaurus contenders.

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On 9/4/2020 at 2:47 PM, Omnomosaurus said:

I've recently had a little chat with Phil Currie around Tyrannosaurid teeth, and he mentioned the subject of enamel "crinkling".

 

Phil wasn't aware of any publication on the feature, but Jim Farlow apparently made the observation years ago that crinkling of the tooth enamel is a feature found solely on tyrannosaurine teeth, and is not present in those of the albertosaurinae.

 

Approx. 25% of tyrannosaurine teeth have enamel crinkles, but Phil is confident that the presence of them can be used as a diagnostic tool to confidently rule out the possibility of it belonging to an albertosaurine tyrannosaur.

 

A tooth lacking this enamel ornamentation can still belong to either the tyrannosaurine or albertosaurinae however.

 

Might be another useful diagnostic tool for a small portion of those Gorgosaurus/Daspletosaurus contenders.

He told me the same thing, it’s interesting, especially why they had these!

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Here is a skull from the Judith River Formation that is being called Daspletosaurus and I'm sure a paper will follow.  Dr. Fowler just posted this update on a skull and indicated that they have 4 tyrannosaurid projects that include an articulated skeleton.   Denver was non-committal on the species and said its being studied but all projects were from the same unit so most likely the same species.  

 

 

Dalpleto.thumb.jpg.fe707ab0c9b1b604ff2b9f9dca356442.jpg

 

Jaws are being prepped.. awesome looking

 

Dalpleto2.thumb.jpg.9b3137e853cc0c20a4cb0521283a714d.jpg

EeyRZaeXgAI_Ist.jpg.fe1d2ae0ac2e2e4f352a823e2320bdce.jpg

 

Nice preservation on postorbital

Dalpleto3.thumb.jpg.92869571003e58b64ee8a03cfe919a63.jpg

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  • 2 months later...
  • Troodon changed the title to Can You Identify Tyrannosaurid Teeth From North America?
  • 4 weeks later...
On 9/4/2020 at 2:47 PM, Omnomosaurus said:

I've recently had a little chat with Phil Currie around Tyrannosaurid teeth, and he mentioned the subject of enamel "crinkling".

 

Phil wasn't aware of any publication on the feature, but Jim Farlow apparently made the observation years ago that crinkling of the tooth enamel is a feature found solely on tyrannosaurine teeth, and is not present in those of the albertosaurinae.

 

Approx. 25% of tyrannosaurine teeth have enamel crinkles, but Phil is confident that the presence of them can be used as a diagnostic tool to confidently rule out the possibility of it belonging to an albertosaurine tyrannosaur.

 

A tooth lacking this enamel ornamentation can still belong to either the tyrannosaurine or albertosaurinae however.

 

Might be another useful diagnostic tool for a small portion of those Gorgosaurus/Daspletosaurus contenders.

Hi! I was reading this Id again to check for updates, and I saw this. Do you have an example of what enamel crinkling would look like? I have a tooth that I think may match this description but I couldn’t find any pictures online that described what enamel crinkling looks like. 

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  • 1 month later...

I was rereading "Morphometry of the teeth of western North American tyrannosaurids and its applicability to quantitative classification" when I noticed this paragraph on the conclusion:

 

The mesial denticles for relatively mature specimens of Albertosaurus, Daspletosaurus, and Gorgosaurus, start closer to the base of the tooth in the maxilla, which is not true for the teeth of Tyrannosaurus rex.

 

Not sure if this point has been discussed yet but does it help to differentiate between T. rex and Nanotyrannus teeth? I have too few teeth to make an accurate comparison but on my large Nanotyrannus, the mesial denticles do end closer to the base than my T. rex does

 

 

962655599_Rex_(5).jpg

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@-Andy-  interesting concept.   In that conclusion they were just looking to aid in the helping ID maxillary and dentary positions of Campanian Tyrannosaurids.   I'll look at my teeth and see if there is any difference in mesial travel between HC / Lance Tyrannosaurids and enough of a difference to talk with Pete.  In your example you are looking at an anterior dentary tooth to a non-typical large Nano and I'm not sure there is enough difference to differentiate the two but lets see what a greater sampling size says.   Would be nice to have more differentiators.

 

 

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@-Andy-  So I took a look at about 50 teeth and its just to difficult to conclusively differentiate the two by that method.   The mesial carina of Nano teeth are generally lower but some are a bit higher and equivalent to T rex teeth.    I have a 3" T-rex maxillary tooth similar to your Nano who's mesial carina extends to the base.   If the Nano's would extend to the base it would be black and white otherwise its too subjective.  I think you have to continue to look at the base shape and robustness of the tooth to make the call.   

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3 minutes ago, Troodon said:

@-Andy-  So I took a look at about 50 teeth and its just to difficult to conclusively differentiate the two by that method.   The mesial carina of Nano teeth are generally lower but some are a bit higher and equivalent to T rex teeth.    I have a 3" T-rex maxillary tooth similar to your Nano who's mesial carina extends to the base.   If the Nano's would extend to the base it would be black and white otherwise its too subjective.  I think you have to continue to look at the base shape and robustness of the tooth to make the call.   

 

Thanks Frank for taking the time out to check your teeth

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  • Troodon changed the title to Identification Tyrannosaurid Teeth From North America

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