saysac Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 OK, went to the site after work for a bit and was so excited to find these! Have both sides of the fossil, but this is the first I found with so much plant material. Found another nice scale that was well preserved but the specimen was too heavy to carry out, so will need to decide if I will try and break the stone to get it out. Hope that some day I will know what type of fish it was.....Images may not be great - tried to beat the setting sun... Sherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saysac Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 more views Sherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saysac Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 and a few more Sherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocksdale Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Wow. Lepidodendron and Cordaites and fish scales galore!!! Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.–Carl Sagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saysac Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 2 fish scales that I could see...at the site I thought there were more, but maybe in better light I can see it better. Can't wait to get the other one home! Sherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocksdale Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Really captures a moment in time long ago with the plants falling in the mud and the lake debris rising up on top. Wow. Looks like some interesting stuff in the area between the big Cordaites leaf and the Lepidodendron branch. Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.–Carl Sagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saysac Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) I know Paul. I zoomed in on the original photo and I think I found a few more scales, just can't be sure till I check it. Does anyone know how to clean these safely? There seems to be a film the the water does not wash off well. Also, is it common to find fish scales with plant material like this? Edited September 11, 2015 by saysac Sherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) Yes, Sherry. It is common to find fish scales/bones in association with plant debris. Green River fish are sometimes found with palm fronds and other plants. At Red Hill the devonian fish there can be found with plants, such as Archaeopteris. At the fish sites I hunt here in CT., I find 6 different species of plants, sometimes, right on/near the fish. Those are but a few examples. If you think about a great storm or hurricane, blowing debris from the nearby plants/trees/ ferns, etc. , and the debris, blowing into the water, where, it eventually sinks into the mud at the bottom, right where some poor fish have been eaten. and the wayward scales have settled down in the same place, then, it makes perfect sense. The settling mud/silt from the storm covers both, and viola! Associated fossils. As for cleaning, you might put a little bit of vinegar on the film covering the fossils, and if it bubbles, you can let it sit for about 10-20 seconds, and then rinse with water until there is no more fizzing. Then try to use a dental pick to gently remove the film. Make sure to test this on a scrap example, before you try it on any of your really good finds. Love todays haul! Regards, Edited September 11, 2015 by Fossildude19 1 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocksdale Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 In the coal measures of England, they sometimes have similar fish scales with plant material. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/9506-fish-scale-and-plant-association/ Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.–Carl Sagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saysac Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Thank you for the vinegar tip! I will try it tomorrow. Do you think it will help on the white that sometimes appears on them also? Thank you also for the information on the plants found with fish scales. I brought up another fern, but it is like what I have found before so did not post any pics. Sherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggieCie Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Great finds again. Remember that you have them now and you can always clean them later as you gain more knowledge. A wrong cleaning on an important find can wash it away, in some circumstances. I think many of us have had the "oh darn" moment where we screwed something up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saysac Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Thank you Ziggie, and I remember the story told at the fossil club meeting. Sherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiggieCie Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Think about the fish/plant association this way: the first thing that must happen for anything to be preserved as a fossil is burial in sediment, and the likelihood of that happening is in an aquatic environment. Fish live there, and terrestrial plants are delivered by gravity and running water. 1 "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocksdale Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) Here's what the fish might have looked like. Courtesy of illustrator Jakub "Kahless28" http://kahless28.deviantart.com/art/Gyroptychius-and-Strepsodus-157545921 Edited September 11, 2015 by Stocksdale 2 Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.–Carl Sagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saysac Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 Those are some strange looking fish Paul.... Sherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saysac Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 I have what may be a silly question, but what did these fish eat, if we know??? Sherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stocksdale Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) I know very little about carboniferous fish. But I'd guess there would be the whole range of fish like we have today. The ones I posted look like they'd eat smaller fish. I should add that I posted that as possibilities. I don't think we've narrowed down beyond the Sarcopterygii class https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcopterygii .Coelacanth was mentioned as another possibility. Maybe we can get it narrowed down further. Edited September 12, 2015 by Stocksdale 2 Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.–Carl Sagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmerlin Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Great finds! really nice to see the fish plant association which i find at my site too best regards Chris "A man who stares at a rock must have a lot on his mind... or nothing at all' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saysac Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 Well, I thank you Chris! You have found more of the fish, so I am envious of you! Sherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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