Northeast Ohio #1 9/24 - Is It A Fish?

[saysac]

This is something new. The photos were very hard to capture the specimen. It appears to by pyritized, but the camera would not capture the shine.

[saysac]

more images

[saysac]

more

Edited September 24, 2015 by saysac

[Stocksdale]

Is it is a fish!!

I need to look closer at the photos you emailed me.

[saysac]

No stinking way Paul...... Seriously?? Why do you think its a fish??????

[ZiggieCie]

A scale pattern with fin pieces?

[saysac]

I do have to admit they looked like scales, but I thought it was some kind of a cone. The other part threw me off though - what you think are fins??

[saysac]

OK. could not stand it. Went and got the fossil out of the garage and got the magnifying glass out. Have to say, it looks like fins. Still asking, will fish pyritize?

[Stocksdale]

Here's higher res images with the parts labeled as I see them.

Here's the one impression

Here's the counter-part of that Impression.

Bars = 10mm

Edited September 25, 2015 by Stocksdale

[ZiggieCie]

Stock's that is what I see. The lower photo without enlarging looks very much like fish scale patterns.

[ZiggieCie]

Here is a link to some fish fossils posted by dshamilla, that are upper penn. thread has links also.

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/54672-identifying-paleoniscoid-fishes-from-linton-ohio-upper-pennsylvanian/

[Stocksdale]

Details

Bars = 10mm

Edited September 25, 2015 by Stocksdale

[Stocksdale]

Two dorsal fins is a characteristic of Sarcopterygii (Coelocanth-like fish)!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcopterygii

. . . . I just found that out a moment ago.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Stocksdale

[ZiggieCie]

Does the second dorsal appear to be up on a fin stub, like the Coelacanth or just a section missing.

[Stocksdale]

Maybe. I'm not a fish expert.

The tail fin doesn't look like most coelocanths.

[Fossildude19]

Hmmm. This is a tough one.

My first thought when I saw it earlier was that it could be fish, ... but I am a bit unsure. The details are not readily seen.

Sherry, fish can pyritize. Here is one of mine.:

If it is a fish, ... I would say it is more likely to be a ray-finned fish (Actinopterygian)

My take on the orientation would be flipped:

You need to keep looking there, Sherry.

Regards,

[Stocksdale]

Good point. Yes, makes sense flipped. It does look like it could be a deep-bodied Actinopterygian.

Here's the other (counterpart?) side flipped.

Here's example of Actinopterygian from Upper Mississippian/ Lower Penn

http://people.sju.edu/~egrogan/BearGulch/pages_fish_species/Aesopichthys_erinaceus.html

Edited September 25, 2015 by Stocksdale

[ckmerlin]

Wow nice find !!! Im thinking this is a Actinopterygian fish too id love to see some close up pictures of the fins and scales if you have the means to do this ? I would like to see if they look like these

from some of my specimens of Actinopterygii s.p

I used a usb microscope with 10x setting for the fin pic

pic 4 shows ceolacanth scale (for comparison to actinopt)

Im sooo pleased for you hope you find more

what a fantastic site you have

best regards Chris

Edited September 25, 2015 by ckmerlin

[saysac]

Oh my gosh, you have absolutely no idea how happy this makes me!!!! So now I have to go back and see if I can find the rest of the fish! Chris, I only have a camera to use for close ups, and later today will do the best I can. I e-mailed the College of Wooster a few days ago to see if I brought a few specimens in if they have a camera that they could get some close up images for me and I was told no, not for public use. I have a question about this specimen. I had wood that pyritized and it got pyrite rot and had to toss it. Do I have to worry about that happening with this specimen?

[ckmerlin]

Oh my gosh, you have absolutely no idea how happy this makes me!!!! So now I have to go back and see if I can find the rest of the fish! Chris, I only have a camera to use for close ups, and later today will do the best I can. I e-mailed the College of Wooster a few days ago to see if I brought a few specimens in if they have a camera that they could get some close up images for me and I was told no, not for public use. I have a question about this specimen. I had wood that pyritized and it got pyrite rot and had to toss it. Do I have to worry about that happening with this specimen?

Hi saysac, as to your question I believe keeping in low humidity helps. I also found this old thread from this forum

hope this is of some help

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/14406-preservation-of-pyrite-fossils-an-experiment/

best regards Chris

Edited September 25, 2015 by ckmerlin

[saysac]

Thank you Chris for the link. I had treated the wood with a lanolin based auto lubricant that was recommended by someone, but kept them in the garage, so they were exposed to humidity. So strange that they would decay at home, but I found them on the bank of a stream? Any way, I am wondering if a museum would even want my little fish, and if so which one? Any thoughts out there?? Paul?? I would rather see it go to a professional that can keep it from decay than rot in my home. Oh and thank you Tim for letting me know fish can pyritize! Did you find yours?

[saysac]

Here are the best images I could get close up.

[saysac]

more

[ZiggieCie]

Very interesting.

[Fossildude19]

Thank you Chris for the link. I had treated the wood with a lanolin based auto lubricant that was recommended by someone, but kept them in the garage, so they were exposed to humidity. So strange that they would decay at home, but I found them on the bank of a stream? Any way, I am wondering if a museum would even want my little fish, and if so which one? Any thoughts out there?? Paul?? I would rather see it go to a professional that can keep it from decay than rot in my home. Oh and thank you Tim for letting me know fish can pyritize! Did you find yours?

Sherry,

Keeping the pyritized specimens as dry as possible is a good way to store them. In a plastic airtight container, with some dessicant packs is about the best way I have heard of storing them.

And yes, Sherry - I 've found most of the fossils in my gallery. Except for a few gifts and fossils I can't find in my travels.

My only hesitation with this specimen being a fish is the lack of definition in the "scales", and the shape of the "fins" at attachment point to the body.

Both could be explained as artifacts of preservation/fossilization. I wouldn't totally rule out that this is some kind of cone or seed.

Just a very hard specimen to judge with it not in hand.

Regards,