Troodon Posted August 2, 2016 Author Share Posted August 2, 2016 (edited) John here is my sugar coated answer NO. not that I'm aware of and partly because so little has been described from the Kem Kem. The paper below covers a few broad items but it's not that useful. This is why I put this topic together on Dino teeth. There is a comprehensive listing on Wikipedia not sure the accuracy. My suggestion is to put like specimens together and if you don't know try posting and see what you get. I'll try to help has much as possible especially with Dino teeth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kem_Kem_Beds https://www.researchgate.net/publication/223833925_Vertebrate_assemblages_from_the_early_Late_Cretaceous_of_southeastern_Morocco_An_overview Edit Forgot: if there is matrix on an item please clean it before posting Edited August 2, 2016 by Troodon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrewer Posted August 3, 2016 Share Posted August 3, 2016 Many thanks Frank. I did look at wiki but I distrust the information as I've edited errors in my field of work. John Map of UK fossil sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekky Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) New research also points to Deltadromeus being a Neovenator/Megaraptor dinosaur not a Ceratosaur. Edited August 5, 2016 by zekky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 New research also points to Deltadromeuis being a Neovenator/Megaraptor dinosaur not a Ceratosaur.Correct and here is the post with paper that describes that association with the newly described Neovenator Gualicho shinyae from Argentina http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/66733-an-unusual-new-theropod-from-argentina/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekky Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Oh Deltadromeus, we have no head or hands for you. If only we did..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrewer Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 I guess the answer is obvious but serrated teeth only belong to flesh eaters yes? And dinosaur rather than reptile? Found a few dinky serrated in my box of stuff. John Map of UK fossil sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runner64 Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 I guess the answer is obvious but serrated teeth only belong to flesh eaters yes? And dinosaur rather than reptile? Found a few dinky serrated in my box of stuff.Correct, a blade-like serrated tooth means that it comes from a theropod. Crocodile and pterosaur teeth are not serrated.However, some basal hadrosaurs have their teeth serrated for chewing up rough vegetation. The first is an Iguanodon and the second is a Batyrosaurus. Notice those dentations/serrations I'm talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) I guess the answer is obvious but serrated teeth only belong to flesh eaters yes? And dinosaur rather than reptile? Found a few dinky serrated in my box of stuff. There are serrated Reptiles and some Avian. Some Mosasaurs teeth have serrations and Ive seen some croc teeth with them. Also there are some theropods teeth without serrations or no teeth at all. Edited August 5, 2016 by Troodon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBrewer Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Ah. That throws a spanner in the works then. Are you taking generally Troodon or Morocco? These are Kem Kem. I guess avian is out then from there? I know they're not iggy, none found there as far as I know. The other tooth looks like one or two I have. Mine are much better condition tho. John Map of UK fossil sites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 6, 2016 Author Share Posted August 6, 2016 (edited) Was talking general. In the Kem Kem all of the theropod teeth are serrated and a few Mosasaurs. Have not see any Avian teeth. Let me add that there may be a few croc teeth with serrations like Elosuchus sp. but they would be very coarse not fine like theropods. Edited August 6, 2016 by Troodon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 6, 2016 Author Share Posted August 6, 2016 Let me alter my comment from above I forgot all about Spinosaurids they are not serrated. Their teeth have ridges on one or both sides or the may be missing completely and are smooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 6, 2016 Author Share Posted August 6, 2016 Deltadromeus tooth identification: We still do not have a skull to definitively identify a tooth however we can start to draw comparisons to get us part of the way there. By describing the Deltadromeus association with the newly described Neovenator, Gualicho shinyae we can look at other Neovenatorids to compare against. An early cretaceous candidate that we have known teeth from is the UK's, Neovenator selerri. However I cannot find a document that describes the morphology these teeth. Armed with nothing but a visual, at the moment, the morphology of tooth from the Kem Kem best fits the mold is shown below. These teeth can easily be confused with Carcharodontosaurid teeth so one needs to look at the serrations they are small and rounded while Carch are rectangular in shape. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgroper Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 Really interesting thread, thanks for sharing your knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zekky Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 (edited) Here's a paper on Australovenator teeth. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26713256 Could be a close relative, it is a Megaraptor though. Edited August 6, 2016 by zekky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted August 6, 2016 Author Share Posted August 6, 2016 Paper is great will have to take some time to study it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 I've updated my first post to summarize all of the new information gathered since 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracorex_hogwartsia Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Thanks for the great post and for the update! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hxmendoza Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Troodon. You state in your amended entry above that currently no theropod teeth from the Kem Kem Beds can be assigned to genus level. I respectfully disagree. Carcharodontosaurus saharicus can. Though the type skull material found by Stromer in the Barariya Formation of Egypt was destroyed during WWII in 1944, the partial skull found by Sereno's crew in 1995 in the Kem Kem Beds of Morocco has been made the Neotype. The second species C. iguidensis is from the Echkar Formation in Niger. So therefore Carcharodontosaurid teeth from the Kem Kem Beds in Morocco, can, in fact, be assigned to the genus and species, Carcharodontosaurus saharicus. Sereno told me this years ago. Reference is: Brusatte, S.L., and Sereno, P.C. (2007) “A New Species of Carcharodontosaurus (Dinosauria: Theropoda) From the Cenomanian of Niger and a Revision of the Genus.” Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 27(4) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 Just basing it on the fact that Sauroniops pachytholus was described in 2012 Paper: A thick skull theropod from the upper cretaceous of Morocco with implications for a carcharodontosaurid cranial evolution by Cau, Vecchia and Fabbri and was cited in a 2013 paper that displayed in the following table which points to two Carcharodontosaurids in the Kem Kem. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runner64 Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 34 minutes ago, Troodon said: Just basing it on the fact that Sauroniops pachytholus was described in 2012 Paper: A thick skull theropod from the upper cretaceous of Morocco with implications for a carcharodontosaurid cranial evolution by Cau, Vecchia and Fabbri and was cited in a 2013 paper that displayed in the following table which points to two Carcharodontosaurids in the Kem Kem. Is there any way to tell a difference between Cristatusaurus and Suchomimus? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted March 29, 2017 Author Share Posted March 29, 2017 Other than seeing in that paper I know nothing about it. I did a quick check and although it was described using jaw sections all the teeth appeared broken. So my guess is probably not until something diagnostic pop up. It's the same situation that exists in the Spinos in Morocco @Runner64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runner64 Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 57 minutes ago, Troodon said: Other than seeing in that paper I know nothing about it. I did a quick check and although it was described using jaw sections all the teeth appeared broken. So my guess is probably not until something diagnostic pop up. It's the same situation that exists in the Spinos in Morocco @Runner64 That is a good way of putting it, I appreciate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hxmendoza Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 I can certainly understand that. I have a problem with the reported on Sauroniops' frontal-nasal being all there is and having no good provenance. So I'll continue being resistant on that for now. I just sent out some feelers to Steve Brusatte, Tom Holtz, and Paul Sereno on the subject. Hopefully I'll hear back from them soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, hxmendoza said: I can certainly understand that. I have a problem with the reported on Sauroniops' frontal-nasal being all there is and having no good provenance. So I'll continue being resistant on that for now. I just sent out some feelers to Steve Brusatte, Tom Holtz, and Paul Sereno on the subject. Hopefully I'll hear back from them soon. Its not me that describes these species I'm just recording what multiple papers cite. I'm sure like most theropods in this region there is lots of different opinions around, now which one to believe? Why you cannot ID teeth, at this time, to a genus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hxmendoza Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I know you're not the one describing the taxa. I'm just adding to the conversation. I heard back pretty quickly from Paul, Steve, and Tom. For now, they are in the same page as me. The responses were (in no particular order, I'll keep that private): "It's not diagnostic" "Yeah, it is hardly a strong case for a new taxon. It has the potential for being a new taxon, but there is hardly a powerful lot of synapomorphies for it." "Quick response: it might be a diagnostic taxon (it does have some unusual features), but it is known from such limited material, so I am a little bit naturally skeptical..." The description even notes the similarity to Abelisauridae in some of its features. And there has been noted large Abelisaur type teeth found in the Kem Kem. And that doesn't even address the problem of Sauroniops' dubious provenance, which is a major issue all on its own. So for now, I at least, will stick to Kem Kem Carcharodontosaurid teeth as being Carcharodontosaurus saharicus. Not trying to start a fight or argument here. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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