Laws about sperm whale teeth trade?

[sdsnl]

I'm in Japan and saw sperm whale teeth for sale. It was a small shop but on a street very famous four tourist souvenirs, so I suppose it's credible? But from a quick search I found that there are international laws prohibiting the trade of sperm whale parts. Did Japan sign the agreements regarding such laws or is it exempted? Would it be OK to buy the teeth and take them out of Japan? Thanks a lot!

[Troodon]

Could you determine if they were real?

Edit: if real you could get fined in the States

Edited October 28, 2015 by Troodon

[Shellseeker]

Not sure about Japan, but in the US, based on widely varying State laws on Interstate commerce, you could purchase 19th century whale teeth, usually carved as scrimshaw.

Here is a link that provides some examples:

http://www.josephjthomasantiques.com/index.cfm?page=Antique-Scrimshaw&action=categories&do=view&categoryID=11

Basically, International law bans the sale of teeth of endangered species; Japan may have chosen not to be a party to that agreement.

[Troodon]

I don't believe Japan signed agreements associated with whaling.

[jpevahouse]

It is illegal to buy, sell or own whale teeth in NJ. A very restrictive law was passed last year prohibiting elephant, mastodon, mammoth, walrus, whale "ivory".

[jpc]

It is illegal in all the USA to own marine mammal parts. Japan has not signed the international whaling treating, which means they refuse to stop killing whales. Whether the treaty covers sale of whale parts and ownership of same whale parts in the 120 or so other countries that have signed, I do not know. Selling sperm whale teeth in japan may be legal.

[Shellseeker]

It is illegal in all the USA to own marine mammal parts.

JPC,

Can you be more specific? I own marine mammal parts -- lots of them... fossil dolphin, porpoise, and whale teeth. O see numerous places on the internet selling 19th century sperm whale teeth containing scrimshaw...

I also have Mammoth and Mastodon ivory...

I am confused on what exactly is prohibited nationwide, and what is allowed state by state... Thanks Jack

Got this off the net: It seems that the illegal act is to sell not to own.

The sale of whale teeth and bone are tightly restricted. According to The

Endangered Species Act of 1973 and USFWS officials, any sale or offer to sell

whale teeth or bone carries a $12,000 fine - per act - and possible imprisonment. All

other marine mammals and their body parts are considered protected under the "Marine

Mammal Protection Act," and similar restrictions apply. The legal sale of sperm whale

teeth falls into the following three categories according to articles of The Endangered

Species Act of 1973 under SEC.10, (f)(1)(A)(ii), (; (f)(6)(D); and (h)(1)(A).

1) Antique - is any tooth that has been determined to be 100 years old or older, dating

back from 1972 (1872 or older). This ivory is legal to buy and sell across state lines in

any form. If you purchase an antique or pre-banned whale’s tooth, you should expect

that the seller will include a Certificate of Exemption for the tooth and/or a

Certification of Subsequent Seller/Shipper/Exporter. These required federal

forms prove that the tooth has been certified as legal for resale and meets the

requirements for resale in the U.S.

2) Pre-Act Teeth - are teeth that date from 1872 to 1972 and are covered by a U.S.

Government exemption certificate. These teeth are legal to buy and sell if they are

accompanied by a U.S. Government exemption certificate, but cannot be shipped

across state lines in their raw form (they must be carved, engraved or scrimshawed).

3) Any other teeth that were in the country prior to 1972 and not covered by an

exemption certificate - These teeth must at the very least be accompanied by a

notarized statement from the seller stating that they were in his/her possession, in this

country, prior to the 1972 moratorium. These teeth cannot be sent across state lines

for commercial resale. The scrimshander must buy these teeth, work on them, and sell

them only within his/her state of residence and then only if such purchase and sale is

legal under the laws of his/her state.

~The only completely illegal ivory at the present time is Indian elephant; this animal is

considered highly endangered because there are few to none left in the wild. They are

almost totally zoo or circus-bred animals, or are domesticated beasts of burden in India.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Shellseeker

[Shellseeker]

I am still probing the internet on the topic of fossilized ivory and the laws regulating it.

Here is an interesting fact on differentiating modern versus fossil ivory:

* Mammoth or Mastodon Different animals, different looking tusks, the cut ivory can look nearly the same. Commerce in this 10,000-40,000 year old ivory is completely unrestricted. A great deal of this ivory in cut form looks practically identical to elephant ivory (except for the outer layer where all the color and weathering is). Our friends at U.S. Fish & Wildlife Forensics Laboratory have discovered a reliable indicator for differentiating between prehistoric mammoth and modern elephant ivory. Color is no indication; it is the angle that the cross grain lines bisect themselves. Angles of less than 90% indicate that it's mammoth/mastodon, angles greater than 120% show that it's elephant. This information is now being shared with customs and wildlife agents around the world so that mammoth ivory will clear customs inspections and not be subject to seizures or delays.

[jpc]

HI Shellseeker... I would love to be more specific but alas, you beat me to it. I have never actually looked this stuff up as you just did, but I was always told that it is illegal to own whale parts. The info you found does not seem to differentiate between modern and fossil except for sperm whale teeth. Interesting.

I did find the Mamrine Mammal Protection Act here:

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/laws/mmpa/

But I am not going to read it all... not right now.

[Auspex]

It's complicated: CITES

[fossilized6s]

So fossilized or not, Sperm Whale teeth are illegal in the US?

What, are the law makers afraid someones going to hunt them done to extinction? Because being fossils, I've got news for them. Haha!

[jpevahouse]

I am still probing the internet on the topic of fossilized ivory and the laws regulating it.

Here is an interesting fact on differentiating modern versus fossil ivory:

New Jersey's recent law restricting ivory trade includes mammoth, mastodon, whale and walrus. Other states may have similar laws. States can enact laws more stringent than federal law but not less stringent. Going by federal law does not absolve a person from being subject to state law.

[Shellseeker]

New Jersey's recent law restricting ivory trade includes mammoth, mastodon, whale and walrus. Other states may have similar laws. States can enact laws more stringent than federal law but not less stringent. Going by federal law does not absolve a person from being subject to state law.

Agree on State laws can be (and are) more restrictive than Federal. The question I am asking is has any state made the ownership of any previously owned mammoth, mastodon, whale and walrus illegal to own. That would be truly amazing and I would think the source of never ending lawsuits..

[sdsnl]

It's complicated: CITES

Thanks, just what I needed! Surprisingly Japan is on the list O_O

[jpevahouse]

Agree on State laws can be (and are) more restrictive than Federal. The question I am asking is has any state made the ownership of any previously owned mammoth, mastodon, whale and walrus illegal to own. That would be truly amazing and I would think the source of never ending lawsuits..

Good question. Not sure on that one but I doubt the average collector would have reason to worry. Law enforcement can barely manage serious crime much less something like owning a whale tooth. Passing a law is one thing, enforcing it another thing altogether.

I notice a lot of mammoth ivory freely passing hands on eBay. Sometimes they are in a mood to enforce their policy against ivory but usually it goes through the system unnoticed.

Edited October 31, 2015 by jpevahouse

[caldigger]

There are many areas around central Calif. ( public beaches, ranches, public lands) that have fossil whale as well as modern whale "parts" showing up all the time. Fossil parts shouldn't be a problem here, as most of the species are not still in existence. As for the modern ones, there has been much whaling in the past and the bones from the discarded carcasses wash up often. I know of many that put the bones in their gardens as yard art. There will be a lot of hoopla if they start fining for ownership.
.

[David in Japan]

Made some search concerning that and I can confirm you that selling and buying sperm whale in Japan is legal. So if you buy something there, there is nothing to be afraid of in Japan. However going back to your country maybe be a different story. Sperm whale teeth like elephant tusk or boar tusk, is part of the CITES list and is regulated by the 1973 washington convention.

Basically, ivory commerce is not forbidden but highly regulated ( If I well understood).

You should contact your local customs before buying any of these.

Have a nice trip in Okinawa, I hope the informaton I gave you will be useful and taht you will find something interesting there.

[sdsnl]

Thanks David! I went to 屋我地島 and 古宇利島 two days ago. There were quite a lot of rocks with shells embedded inside, but I'm not sure if they are fossils . But I did find one that I think is a fossilized shell fragment from a clypeaster sea biscuit. I will post pictures when I get home!

Do you remember that the link you sent me has photos from 円筒状空洞地形群? I went there and saw the same sign that they took a picture of, but couldn't find the rock with the big hole! I thought maybe it was the wrong place so I drove around some more. Soon I was stopped by a shop owner who said I couldn't go further. I asked her about the place and she said it was where I came from. The direction and distance she told me matched that place, but then she wrote down a name of a beach (something 浜) and I couldn't find a sign for it anywhere. Hehe, I don't know whether I missed the spot or the rock has been weathered beyond recognition during the last few years? .

Edited November 2, 2015 by sdsnl