Shellseeker Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) A mixture which I find most enjoyable -- life is like a box of chocolates... First, kudos to Harry, who maintains a GREAT!!! Gallery. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/gallery/image/37880-bison-vs-camel-astragalus/ The 2 side "columns" measure 69 and 78 mm respectively, so I believe this is right side Bison Astragalus in fantastic shape. and next a large deer or small camel tooth -- it is 29mm long and 21mm across chewing surface. Finally, 28 mm GW or Meg, My 1st take was GW, but one companion said GW and the other said Meg and I am unsure... seems like a close call, but maybe not. Thanks for any/all comments, guesses, and accurate IDs. Jack Edited October 31, 2015 by Shellseeker The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrieder79 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I would say great white based on the size of serration relative to tooth size. Also there is not enough bourlette. Luck is the most important skill of a fossil diver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimlock Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Another great haul! The two teeth are definitely great whites, the serrations are a dead give away. Terrific specimens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 nice trip "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"_ Carl Sagen No trees were killed in this posting......however, many innocent electrons were diverted from where they originally intended to go. " I think, therefore I collect fossils." _ Me "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."__S. Holmes "can't we all just get along?" Jack Nicholson from Mars Attacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 I love where this is going. I have been fortunate to find 100s of Megs. This would be my 5th GW found in the Peace River over the last 7 years. Even local rarity breeds desire. 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilized6s Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I agree with GW. Good stuff, Jack. ~Charlie~ "There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why.....i dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" ~RFK ->Get your Mosasaur print ->How to spot a fake Trilobite ->How to identify a CONCRETION from a DINOSAUR EGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calhounensis Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) The astragalus belongs to a camel, not bison. One of the Pleistocen camels, Paleolama or Hemiauchenia. That elongated 'lobe' is the giveaway, bison are more 'blunt', for lack of a better word. Edited October 31, 2015 by calhounensis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Thanks for the feedback on the gallery images, Jack. I think the astragalus is a camelid bone, a big one. Camelid tooth, as well. I agree with the GW identification. 2 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 Camel, Camel, GW. This location is getting more interesting. Thanks to all helping to ID these finds. Harry, I wondered, due to 78 mm length, whether this was a small/female Bison or even Bos considering the historical environments. Very large camel tooth size would seem to imply Hemiauchenia. Cal, I am staring at that elongated lobe, so I can better ID in the future. The long lobe "seems" to be missing in the side by side from Harry's Gallery. Do you think that the lobe may be less pronounced on one of the two possible camelid IDs? Jack The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Cal is referring to the exaggerated prominence of one side of the tibial condyle in these camelids. It may be a trick of the camera that you're not seeing the difference between the two astragali. Maybe this silhouette image will help: http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 Cal is referring to the exaggerated prominence of one side of the tibial condyle in these camelids. It may be a trick of the camera that you're not seeing the difference between the two astragali. Maybe this silhouette image will help: camel_bison_astragalus_sil.JPG Thanks Harry, I see it now. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plantguy Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Jack, Keep finding stuff! I learn a ton from these kind of posts! thanks and congrats! Regards, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpevahouse Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) Generally camel astagalus are noticeably smaller than ice age era bison. Bison antigus was larger than modern bison. They are fairly easy to distinquish based on size from my experience. There are also some small details in form which vary. Edited November 2, 2015 by jpevahouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlar7607 Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 nice finds jack ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharks of SC Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Not to shake things up, but I think your tooth may be of the Carcharocles lineage. It appears that there is a small, but visible bourlette and the serrations are too uniform for great white as far as I'm concerned. Just my two cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 Not to shake things up, but I think your tooth may be of the Carcharocles lineage. It appears that there is a small, but visible bourlette and the serrations are too uniform for great white as far as I'm concerned. Just my two cents Thanks for offering an alternative ID. I really do not know. I hope for the experts to not only agree on an ID but also to specify the differentiators. Here is a photo of another shark tooth that I found last season and currently labeled as a GW. It also seems to have a minimal bourlette and similar serrations. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Last year's tooth is definitely a GW. http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickNC Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Not to shake things up, but I think your tooth may be of the Carcharocles lineage. It appears that there is a small, but visible bourlette and the serrations are too uniform for great white as far as I'm concerned. Just my two cents The teeth are Great Whites. Thanks for offering an alternative ID. I really do not know. I hope for the experts to not only agree on an ID but also to specify the differentiators. Here is a photo of another shark tooth that I found last season and currently labeled as a GW. GreatWhite1.jpg It also seems to have a minimal bourlette and similar serrations. Also a Great White. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Great finds Jack! Good to see that this season is off to an interesting start. I love show-and-tell postings of trip finds that turn into a learning experience. If got a bit of bison and a bit of camel in my collection but I'd love to be able to add more of these to my nascent collection. I particularly love to find camel bits simply because it is fun to show someone your finds (or even merely tell them of your finds) and watch the wheels turn in their head when they try to process the fact that Florida was once teeming with things like camels (or giant sloths). Fossil remains of gators or horses or sharks don't seem to have the same effect as their extant relations are commonplace but tell them that several "elephant" species once meandered through the peninsula and it opens the door to lots of questions. It's fun (and a great teaching opportunity) to blow non-fossil savvy people's minds this way. The level on the Peace is just about in range and I'm starting to feel the itch. For me it is a 3 hour trip to the river so I like to be reasonably confident that I won't need a snorkel to stand in the river and that the current won't send me tumbling down the river. Also, while the river is high it belongs to gators more than fossil hunters so be careful out there any of you intrepid river sifters. Now is the time that my 'Peace River' keyword searches on the forum will start turning up fresh topics to light my imagination and stoke the flames of desire. Cheers. -Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 Great post, Ken The level on the Peace is just about in range and I'm starting to feel the itch. For me it is a 3 hour trip to the river so I like to be reasonably confident that I won't need a snorkel to stand in the river and that the current won't send me tumbling down the river. Also, while the river is high it belongs to gators more than fossil hunters so be careful out there any of you intrepid river sifters. Well, the river is "a-changin". Water depth is between my chest and my neck as I am struggling to get that shovel a little deeper. It is a laugh riot when my partner slips into his 7 foot hole and is scrambling as the current takes him, his shovel and sieve all downstream. As we moved into this area 2 weeks back , we noted the local fauna was still present and while they have retreated to other parts pf the river, I have a razor sharp 6 inch scuba knife strapped to my right calf (to my partner's amusement). He thinks I am being over cautious in water where I can not see my left hand on the shovel, but I think I am just being sensible.. We may both be crazy... Be careful out there.. Jack The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 ...I think I am just being sensible.. As in "digging-7ft.-deep-holes-in-the-bed-of-a-raging-river" sensible? Whatever you say, Jack... "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 As in "digging-7ft.-deep-holes-in-the-bed-of-a-raging-river" sensible? Whatever you say, Jack... I think you caught me Chas. "sensible" is not a term I would apply to my fossil hunting hobby.. There are shallower parts of the river, BUT that is not where the fossils are... The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 ...There are shallower parts of the river, BUT that is not where the fossils are... Q: Why do you rob banks? A: Because that's where the money is. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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