This keichosaur has to be fake right?

[Fossil Claw]

Something seems really odd about it.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Fossil Claw

[snolly50]

Yes, odd. The resting positions of the two animals seems not to be what would be expected in a natural deposition via currents - at least to my eye. Of interest, one appears to be the more common ventral presentation, while the other dorsal. In addition disparate size is noted, as well as some apparently incomplete bones of the foot (maybe). That being said, I would love to have that piece in hand; but would not pay to do so.

Edited November 1, 2015 by snolly50

[Fossildude19]

Faker than a million dollar bill.

[Fossil Claw]

Help me understand why?

To me it was that it just doesn't look right.

I have seen a number or real ones and something just feels off about it.

I am trying to learn to put words to why other than it just seems off.

Faker than a million dollar bill.

[Fossildude19]

Well, for starters, there are 2 on the plate.

- I have never seen a keichosaur for sale with 2 on one plate.

- The matrix doesn't look like typical keichosaur matrix.

- The width of the tail on the right specimen looks odd, compared to the 2nd one, which is roughly the same size.

- The rear feet look too big.

- The poses look unreal. They may have bent necks, but not in an s-curve.

To me, there are just too many question marks that make me too uneasy about this piece.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

[Fossil Claw]

Thanks. Your first three bullets were things I noticed also.

BTW going to be in CT next week. Still have not heard back from the State about the request for a permit to hunt road cuts.

Hopefully I hear by early next year as I will be there in March, April and May.

[snolly50]

Tim is certainly correct, caution should reign here, The factors I mentioned are perhaps not indicators of spuriousness and in my mind may suggest authenticity. Well, except for the "strange" resting posture of the critters. As another positive for "real," I like the cropped and distorted tails. Why would a faker introduce those flaws? I know, to be tricky; but I doubt that explanation. As I said, I would not buy this piece (assuming I was looking for such a specimen); but I would like to have it to explore what secrets it holds, true or false. It's impossible to know from a photo, not easy in hand.

Good luck, have fun. I don't know if you were considering purchasing this piece; I would not.

[Fossil Claw]

Nope. Not considering buying it.

I periodically post pics to learn how to tell fakes.

Tim is certainly correct, caution should reign here, The factors I mentioned are perhaps not indicators of spuriousness and in my mind may suggest authenticity. Well, except for the "strange" resting posture of the critters. As another positive for "real," I like the cropped and distorted tails. Why would a faker introduce those flaws? I know, to be tricky; but I doubt that explanation. As I said, I would not buy this piece (assuming I was looking for such a specimen); but I would like to have it to explore what secrets it holds, true or false. It's impossible to know from a photo, not easy in hand.

Good luck, have fun. I don't know if you were considering purchasing this piece; I would not.

[sdsnl]

Overall they look proportionally too fat. The limb bones are a bit short and too thin. The one on the right has things extending off the neck and tail verts like ribs?? Also the sand/dust on the matrix, especially around the skeletons, is characterisitc of fakes. They purposefully put it there to make the piece look like it has been taken out of the ground. Sometimes they bury finished fakes on the ground for a while to get this effect.

[Auspex]

The "bones" are the same material as the "matrix".

As physical evidence goes, this is all you need to see to prove that it is an 'artful creation'.

[amour 25]

Faker than a million dollar bill.

You don't own any?

Me I have a draw full. LOL

[snolly50]

sdsnl makes an excellent point regarding the concentration of whitish matrix adjacent to the bone. Thanks for the comments on some of the tricks employed in producing spurious pieces.

Auspex, my eyes were telling me (rightly or not) that the bone was obscured by a thin coat of mineral deposit and I thought I was seeing darker bone showing in spots. With the piece in hand a quick scrape would settle that question.

If it is a sham (which I believe it is) I would love to deconstruct it to try and divine the methods employed. Better yet it would be great to read a first hand report from someone who had visited the "factory" in China and observed the artisans.

[jpevahouse]

I've collected Asian art for many years. The Chinese destroyed the market for Tibetan artwork by flooding online auctions with poorly made fake Tibean artwork. Then there's all the other fake Asian artwork, wooden, bronze and stone staturary, ceramics, fake scrolls and documents. Anything worth anything is faked in China, which now includes fossils.

I would not buy a fossil from China, too risky.

Another foreign bad investment are mammoth teeth from Russia. With the melting of the permafrost large numbers of mammoth remains are exposed and ending up on online auctions. This trend with only grow until they are next to worthless due to abundance. Estimates of the number of mammoth remains still in the permafrost of Siberia are in the millions. The market for these fossils could easily be saturated in a few years.

Edited November 1, 2015 by jpevahouse

[LordTrilobite]

Another foreign bad investment are mammoth teeth from Russia. With the melting of the permafrost large numbers of mammoth remains are exposed and ending up on online auctions. This trend with only grow until they are next to worthless due to abundance. Estimates of the number of mammoth remains still in the permafrost of Siberia are in the millions. The market for these fossils could easily be saturated in a few years.

The opisite is happening with North Sea Ice Age fossils. Like Syberia, there's still a lot there. but due to new regulations, not a lot of is is fished up from the depths.

[sdsnl]

sdsnl makes an excellent point regarding the concentration of whitish matrix adjacent to the bone. Thanks for the comments on some of the tricks employed in producing spurious pieces.

Auspex, my eyes were telling me (rightly or not) that the bone was obscured by a thin coat of mineral deposit and I thought I was seeing darker bone showing in spots. With the piece in hand a quick scrape would settle that question.

If it is a sham (which I believe it is) I would love to deconstruct it to try and divine the methods employed. Better yet it would be great to read a first hand report from someone who had visited the "factory" in China and observed the artisans.

I have read some Chinese articles about keichosaur fakes. As I remember there are 5 main ways to do it. I'm traveling right now, but when I get home I can find the info on my comp and have a summary translated. I once had a fake that was made pretty good except that the neck was too short and the ribs not broken. But they made it with cracks on the matrix running through the bones. It looked really realistic, with the bones being broken along the matrix. I decided to wash off the dust and examine how it was made. But when I was washing it (just under the tap!), the bone dissolved! Hahaha!