ElToro Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 I recently acquired this Irish Elk metacarpus from the North Sea. Upon closer inspection I noticed a series of scratch or cut marks on one end of bone. Anyone have any ideas? Marks from dredge? Butchery marks? "That belongs in a museum!" - Indiana Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike from North Queensland Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Not being an expert but because the surface of the scratches is lighter in colour than the patina of the rest of the specimen I would suspect they are fairly recent so netting or dredging theory looks a good candidate. As the specimen looks to have been coated it is difficult to tell. Mike D'Arcy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElToro Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 Yea, bone is coated. Ahh, I see. If different colour, then done later. I gotta look close when I get home from work. There was hardly any colour difference, so I had to shine light on it at angle to show marks. "That belongs in a museum!" - Indiana Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 It could be an artifact of it's taphonomy. Not being a marine animal, the bone could have been damaged during the course of deposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) North Sea bones are fished up from the depths with large nets that are dragged along the bottom. It's possible that the bone was damaged when it was found. But... I have around a 100 Mega Fauna bones from the North Sea and I have not seen such clear repeating marks before. Some bones do have scratches, but they are much more random in appearance. The bones from the North Sea are also quite hard, so it doesn't scratch that easily. Bones do sometimes show bite marks from Hyenas for example. The repeating nature doesn't suggest random damage. So either bitemarks or man made (pleistocene or recent) Edited November 30, 2015 by LordTrilobite 1 Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElToro Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 North Sea bones are fished up from the depths with large nets that are dragged along the bottom. It's possible that the bone was damaged when it was found. But... I have around a 100 Mega Fauna bones from the North Sea and I have not seen such clear repeating marks before. Some bones do have scratches, but they are much more random in appearance. The bones from the North Sea are also quite hard, so it doesn't scratch that easily. Bones do sometimes show bite marks from Hyenas for example. The repeating nature doesn't suggest random damage. So either bitemarks or man made (pleistocene or recent) Thanx mate, yea I'm very hesitant calling it "butchery marks" until everything else is ruled. I was thinking the same thing about the dredging. It would have had to have a lot of weight behind it and super sharp jagged rocks under it to make those cuts. Because I hunt and butcher myself, they do look like marks associated with the skinning and butchery of the leg. They are near the end of the bone where the tendons attach. And repeating short cuts are exactly what you would have to do with flint tools. Hmmmm..... "That belongs in a museum!" - Indiana Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Yeah I don't hink it's damage from rocks. Since it's from the North Sea, judging by the colour it's likely to come from the Brown Bank, which is an underwater sandbank. The many fossils I have from there don't have this kind of damage. Imo, if the bone is damaged during retrieval, parts would break instead of just scratching a little. the scratches would likely also be more random than this. Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElToro Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 Yeah I don't hink it's damage from rocks. Since it's from the North Sea, judging by the colour it's likely to come from the Brown Bank, which is an underwater sandbank. The many fossils I have from there don't have this kind of damage. Imo, if the bone is damaged during retrieval, parts would break instead of just scratching a little. the scratches would likely also be more random than this. Yea, I showed it to my veterinarian friend and he has never seen marks like this. He thinks that someone may have cleaned the bone for use as a tool. "That belongs in a museum!" - Indiana Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I will say they are not rodent gnaw marks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElToro Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 I will say they are not rodent gnaw marks. I've thought about bite marks but there are no corresponding bite marks for the other jaw. Shouldnt bites have two sets of marks? "That belongs in a museum!" - Indiana Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Interesting, but I agree that the marks have a lighter colour. This points to dredging damage. The bones have been trawled in a fishing net across the sea floor for quite some time. That may cause damage. Human cut marks are usally very sharp and have the same colour as the fossilised bone. However, in order to be sure I suggest you show it to an archeologist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I've thought about bite marks but there are no corresponding bite marks for the other jaw. Shouldnt bites have two sets of marks? Rodent marks do not have two sets. Also deer sometimes gnawing bones in search for calcium. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElToro Posted December 1, 2015 Author Share Posted December 1, 2015 Thanx guys. I'll drag it down to the local museum. See if they got any ideas. "That belongs in a museum!" - Indiana Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I think that, being diagonal to the shaft, animal teeth were not involved in making the marks. Beyond this, I cannot interpret their origin with any confidence. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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