Fossils Are Not The Only Thing Being Faked

[Oxytropidoceras]

Fossils are the only item being faked. Go look at:

Forging an Art Market in China by David Barboza,

Graham Bowley and Amanda Cox. Additional

Reporting by Jo Craven McGinty, New York Times,

Beijing, October 28, 2013

http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2013/china-art-fraud/

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2013/11/02/2003575945

Chinese Fake Art (Al Jazeera English Video)

http://nowiknow.com/chinese-fake-art-video/

China: Faking It: The insatiable appetite for antiques

by China's growing nouveau riche is feeding a

counterfeit industry, Aljazeera, Nov. 26, 2015

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/101east/2015/11/china-fake-antiques-151125104456921.html

It is not just China. Go read "Problems with American

Indian Artifacts" by Col. John F. Berner at

http://www.realorrepro.com/article/Problems-with-American-Indian-Artifacts

and the paper:

Whittaker, J. C., and M. Stafford,1999, Replicas,

Fakes, and Art: The Twentieth Century Stone Age

and Its Effects on Archaeology. American Antiquity.

vol. 64, no. 2 (Apr., 1999), pp. 203-214.

PDF file at https://web.archive.org/web/20151206000536/http://users.clas.ufl.edu/krigbaum/proseminar/Ethics%20March%207/Ethics%20(assigned%20readings)/reproductions,%20fakes%20and%20frauds/1999%20Whittaker%20&%20Stafford,%20the%2020th%20century%20stone%20age.pdf

Abstract at http://www.jstor.org/stable/2694274

Yours,

Paul H.

[Ridgehiker]

I play and collect Fender guitars. There are about 145 parts to a Stratocaster. The Chinese make fake Stratocasters that are as little different from originals than two originals are from each other. The difference, is $200 vs $1600 (depending on the model).

I reported a couple sellers to Alibaba and to the sites credit, they were removed. However, ask just about any Alibaba vendor to get you a fake designer 'whatever' and they will do it.

[ZiggieCie]

Amazing and disgusting.

Greedy people destroy everything.

[ZiggieCie]

A bump. Interesting info for anyone buying fossils or anything else collectable, especially from China. They are very good and very patient making copies of about everything. Morocco also. caveat emptor.

[Ridgehiker]

A bump. Interesting info for anyone buying fossils or anything else collectable, especially from China. They are very good and very patient making copies of about everything. Morocco also. caveat emptor.

They are also excellent researchers and marketers. Send fake or altered fossils to some cover in Montana, etc. Then sell eggs, T. rex teeth, etc. from what appears to be a reputable dealer where the fossils are suppose to originate.

The cons are not in back rooms in some village but sophisticated technicians using the latest technology.

[Carcharodontosaurus]

They are also excellent researchers and marketers. Send fake or altered fossils to some cover in Montana, etc. Then sell eggs, T. rex teeth, etc. from what appears to be a reputable dealer where the fossils are suppose to originate.

The cons are not in back rooms in some village but sophisticated technicians using the latest technology.

I am pretty sure that any fake made from plastic or resin (as I'd assume the fake T. rex teeth to be made of) would be quickly exposed to a hot needle test.

[aplomado]

The Chinese are faking antique coins in mass:

http://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-morgan-dollars.html

[sdsnl]

The grand masters are in the food industry. There's fake meat, fake egg, fake rice, fake vegetables…you name it. You may not realize it even when you cut it up and cook it. You may also get the expected taste when eating it. But you may find it chewy. Go on YouTube and you can find many videos showing how these fake foods are made, disgusting!

That's why many Chinese people frequent Hong Kong to buy things and smuggle back to China, as things that are not made in China can be sold for high prices. Some smugglers even use school kids as foot soldiers--there are many kids who live in China but come to Hong Kong for school (because their Chinese mothers come to Hong Kong to give birth, so the kids can get Hong Kong citizenship and thus, education), so they cross the border every day. A recent mews story found a group using kids as young as 5th grade to smuggle iPhones!

[sdsnl]

I haven't read about T rex teeth, but do you know how the best fake dino eggs are made? They stick egg shell fragments to round stones like a puzzle game, so even if you look at it under a microscope you can still be fooled. Anywhere that may show glue or other things that may raise suspicion, they'd cover up with sand that resemble the matrix where the egg is from. The item can sit in your home for a few years until one day the glue cracks and some egg shells peel off, and that's when you realize you've got a fake.

[Ridgehiker]

I am pretty sure that any fake made from plastic or resin (as I'd assume the fake T. rex teeth to be made of) would be quickly exposed to a hot needle test.

How many T. rex teeth have you collected? I've collected hundreds. I have handled fakes that would fool me.

It's almost comical how someone on this site will post a photo of their recently purchased tooth from Montana and have it 'verified' and admired by others. Unless I have that tooth in my hand and can look at it under the microscope, I would not accept it as legitimate. The Chinese fraudsters are not stupid...they manipulate the whole process from manufacturing fakes to setting up the 'legitimate' sale.

[Ridgehiker]

I haven't read about T rex teeth, but do you know how the best fake dino eggs are made? They stick egg shell fragments to round stones like a puzzle game, so even if you look at it under a microscope you can still be fooled. Anywhere that may show glue or other things that may raise suspicion, they'd cover up with sand that resemble the matrix where the egg is from. The item can sit in your home for a few years until one day the glue cracks and some egg shells peel off, and that's when you realize you've got a fake.

One needs to be careful of the 'signs of a fake'. These are often a means of manipulation. It will be something on a designer bag that 'the stitching together is wrong'...or on a coin 'the letter 'a' in a word isn't quite right'. Something that the buyer can check. Then of course the fakers do not make these mistakes and the buyer assumes the item is legitimate. It doesn't take much thought to know that a faker who can make a complete imitation pair of sunglasses via hi tech processes is also going to be able to make a perfect label. If something easy to check is given of evidence of a fake, then see red flags.

[Carcharodontosaurus]

How many T. rex teeth have you collected? I've collected hundreds. I have handled fakes that would fool me.

It's almost comical how someone on this site will post a photo of their recently purchased tooth from Montana and have it 'verified' and admired by others. Unless I have that tooth in my hand and can look at it under the microscope, I would not accept it as legitimate. The Chinese fraudsters are not stupid...they manipulate the whole process from manufacturing fakes to setting up the 'legitimate' sale.

Resin and plastic melt when pressed with a hot needle. Rock/tooth material does not.

Can we see pictures of the fakes you have held?

[sseth]

I am sure my Rolex from China is real though.

[Ridgehiker]

I am sure my Rolex from China is real though.

Take a photo and post it on a watch forum. I'm sure the watch experts will be able to tell from a photo if it is real...especially the ones who have never handled a real Rolex.

Actually reminds me. Real Rolex boxes, Gibson guitar cases, etc. have mushroomed in value. Buy a fake Gibson Less Paul Classic guitar from China for $200...buy a real case for $250. Then these both are sold together as legitimate ($3500). There is a company that even sells all of the inserts, stickers, Manuels, etc. that come with a new guitar.

[Troodon]

You do not need to travel to China to find fake T-rex teeth. We have some of the best replica manufactures here in the States. For example the Black Hills Institute sells some of the most beautiful, realist replicas of teeth, jaws and bones. IMO selling replica teeth has real is not a problem and I personally have not run into it. All these replica teeth are made from resin, very light in weight and easily recognizable when you are holding them. Also they don't pass the clink test, they produce a dud. The needle test works but it's sort of a destructive test. Looking at the base of real and replica tooth can also easily tell them apart. Let's worry about real problems, sellers pushing rocks has fossils...

[sdsnl]

One needs to be careful of the 'signs of a fake'. These are often a means of manipulation. It will be something on a designer bag that 'the stitching together is wrong'...or on a coin 'the letter 'a' in a word isn't quite right'. Something that the buyer can check. Then of course the fakers do not make these mistakes and the buyer assumes the item is legitimate. It doesn't take much thought to know that a faker who can make a complete imitation pair of sunglasses via hi tech processes is also going to be able to make a perfect label. If something easy to check is given of evidence of a fake, then see red flags.

With brandname items those little mistakes are intended so the fakers don't get into legal trouble. If a big company tracks down a factory making fakes of their products, the facker can say, your logo is abc, mine is adc. Your stitching is like this, my stitching is like that. I didn't copy you! And they will get out of trouble. But of course there are always higher risk takers who will make their fakes as close to the original as possible.

This year a kind of handheld battery-operated fan got popular in Hong Kong. It's supposedly powerful and useful for outdoor activities, and was invented in China. This little thing only costs 4-8 USD, but there were so many versions of fakes around, even in long-established shops in shopping centers. Some fakes looked just like the original, but would have problems very soon. The funny thing is these fakes could sell for double the price of reals!

There's a simple way to check whether a Chinese fossil is real or not. Chinese fossil laws, while immature, are strict, exporting some high value items can earn you the death sentence. Do you think someone is willing to risk their life for the money you are paying for it? When the whole transaction is on the www and the police can easily track them down? There are many other things they can do with less risk and more profit.

The seller will tell you the item will ship from Hong Kong, so you'd think they don't have that risk problem and there's a higher chance the fossil is real. What reall happens is they will use a kind of service provided by some Chinese shipping companies where they'd send the items to the company's China offices, then they'll get bulk carried to Hong Kong where the items will be repacked and shipped with Hong Kong Post, so you'll get the package with Hong Kong Post labels and forms all over it and no sign of Chinese origin. They call this 香港小包, in Chinese forums they recommend it for eBay selling. Some say it's faster and more reliable (and cheaper if shipping to a far location like the US) than China Post, some say it's good for sending fake products…

[Ridgehiker]

Sdsnl

The cost of an item and shipping always baffles me. I couldn't send a random rock or a stick to China, for the costs of what they send a finished product to me. So it's not just low labour costs. I got a t-shirt with a custom logo for $7 delivered. A small on-guitar amp for 8.99.

Yesterday we bought 2 lbs of small oranges from China..$2.99 . Walmart made a profit so how is any of the this possible? I suppose this is why I'm in the sciences and not business...the latter is an enigma.

Anyways, with new technologies just about everything can be faked and fakes will improve. I can picture something weird like an episode from the Simpsons. A bunch of fake Dino teeth are dumped by the Chinese in the badlands...then hidden cameras watch fossil hunters pick them up while researchers make notes on the reaction.

Perhaps one day we'll all own a Mona Lisa indistinguishable from the original. Buyer beware.

[sdsnl]

Sdsnl

The cost of an item and shipping always baffles me. I couldn't send a random rock or a stick to China, for the costs of what they send a finished product to me. So it's not just low labour costs. I got a t-shirt with a custom logo for $7 delivered. A small on-guitar amp for 8.99.

Yesterday we bought 2 lbs of small oranges from China..$2.99 . Walmart made a profit so how is any of the this possible? I suppose this is why I'm in the sciences and not business...the latter is an enigma.

Anyways, with new technologies just about everything can be faked and fakes will improve. I can picture something weird like an episode from the Simpsons. A bunch of fake Dino teeth are dumped by the Chinese in the badlands...then hidden cameras watch fossil hunters pick them up while researchers make notes on the reaction.

Perhaps one day we'll all own a Mona Lisa indistinguishable from the original. Buyer beware.

Shipping is probably cheaper from China, especially with surface shipping. Frequent shippers can get discounts and they've also got this consolidated shipping thing...idk whether they do it for US/Canada, but the idea is there are companies that will get together many sellers' things to ship together to reduce the international cost, then once it reaches the destination country they unpack the whole thing and send each package their separate ways to reach the buyers. It still doesn't seem very profitable I agree...well sometimes there is zero labor cost. Ever heard of forced labor camps? Or just regular prisons. There are news stories about the guards operating their little businesses using the prisoners as free labor, and they really overwork them. And these people may not even have done anything wrong. You know China has many prisoners of conscience. You might remember a few years back there was big news about someone in the US opening her made-in-China product and discovering a SOS note inside? http://www.oregonlive.com/happy-valley/index.ssf/2012/12/halloween_decorations_carry_ha.html

Other than that idk, maybe material cost is very low? IDK why you have oranges all the way from China when you can have nice ones from CA ? Even our stores here carry the CA ones. Were the Chinese oranges much cheaper than the CA ones?

[aplomado]

Sdsnl

The cost of an item and shipping always baffles me. I couldn't send a random rock or a stick to China, for the costs of what they send a finished product to me. So it's not just low labour costs. I got a t-shirt with a custom logo for $7 delivered. A small on-guitar amp for 8.99.

Yesterday we bought 2 lbs of small oranges from China..$2.99 . Walmart made a profit so how is any of the this possible? I suppose this is why I'm in the sciences and not business...the latter is an enigma.

Anyways, with new technologies just about everything can be faked and fakes will improve. I can picture something weird like an episode from the Simpsons. A bunch of fake Dino teeth are dumped by the Chinese in the badlands...then hidden cameras watch fossil hunters pick them up while researchers make notes on the reaction.

Perhaps one day we'll all own a Mona Lisa indistinguishable from the original. Buyer beware.

USPS has special deal with Hong Kong to give them very low shipping rates ("ePacket") to "encourage" commerce.

[sdsnl]

USPS has special deal with Hong Kong to give them very low shipping rates ("ePacket") to "encourage" commerce.

Really? I don't think I've been able to use this when shipping to the US...the rates are all the same for faraway countries. Is it only available for ebay sellers?

[aplomado]

Really? I don't think I've been able to use this when shipping to the US...the rates are all the same for faraway countries. Is it only available for ebay sellers?

Possibly- ebay is involved I know. I'm not sure. Search for "ePacket" delivery.

[Ridgehiker]

To sell a 2 lbs box of miniature oranges at Walmart for 2.99 ( $2.25 US dollar) ?

Trees planted, watered, etc. A few years with no return on that tree, it produces fruit...more care of the tree. Watering, labour to pick them, sent to warehouse for packaging them in sturdy boxes ( labour, materials to make boxes). Transported to coast. Loaded on ship. Shipped across the World. Unloaded at dock. Trucked to train. Transport 1000km to my city. Put on truck to store. Unloaded. Put on shelves. All along the way the cost of a high tech infrastructure, inspections, customs, finance, wholesalers, brokers, etc. Then Walmart takes its profit from that retail price.

I can go to British Columbia and pick my fruit at farms...peaches, grapes, etc. and they still cost more for pound than oranges delivered all the way from China. Perhaps they have hired Santa Claus in the off season.

[ZiggieCie]

One; I will not eat anything from china. Two; I will not feed anything to my Dogs from china, as long as I can help it.

There have been report out on how the pollution there has ruined much of their soil and water to the point that much of what they grow is not safe to eat. (They import much of their food because of this). It might of been National Geo mag.

They have no enforceable safety regulations regarding foodstuffs. How many deaths of babies, adults and pets have you heard of from chinese "food"? Too many.

IMHO

[ZiggieCie]

To sell a 2 lbs box of miniature oranges at Walmart for 2.99 ( $2.25 US dollar) ?

Trees planted, watered, etc. A few years with no return on that tree, it produces fruit...more care of the tree. Watering, labour to pick them, sent to warehouse for packaging them in sturdy boxes ( labour, materials to make boxes). Transported to coast. Loaded on ship. Shipped across the World. Unloaded at dock. Trucked to train. Transport 1000km to my city. Put on truck to store. Unloaded. Put on shelves. All along the way the cost of a high tech infrastructure, inspections, customs, finance, wholesalers, brokers, etc. Then Walmart takes its profit from that retail price.

I can go to British Columbia and pick my fruit at farms...peaches, grapes, etc. and they still cost more for pound than oranges delivered all the way from China. Perhaps they have hired Santa Claus in the off season.

It is amazing how this can be done.

It is like buying on-line now. I can buy almost anything on line and have free shipping to my door for less than going to a local store and buy it there. That is amazing. If I try to ship something UPS the cost for me is very steep. I am glad they can do it for our sake and it keeps the drivers working.

[sdsnl]

To sell a 2 lbs box of miniature oranges at Walmart for 2.99 ( $2.25 US dollar) ?

Trees planted, watered, etc. A few years with no return on that tree, it produces fruit...more care of the tree. Watering, labour to pick them, sent to warehouse for packaging them in sturdy boxes ( labour, materials to make boxes). Transported to coast. Loaded on ship. Shipped across the World. Unloaded at dock. Trucked to train. Transport 1000km to my city. Put on truck to store. Unloaded. Put on shelves. All along the way the cost of a high tech infrastructure, inspections, customs, finance, wholesalers, brokers, etc. Then Walmart takes its profit from that retail price.

I can go to British Columbia and pick my fruit at farms...peaches, grapes, etc. and they still cost more for pound than oranges delivered all the way from China. Perhaps they have hired Santa Claus in the off season.

Something to do with buying in a very large quantity I guess…I just remembered I bought a whole chicken not too long ago, it was from Europe and less than 4 USD. I don't understand how it could be done either.