lolman1c Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) I think in this particular case at least half of the matrix is real. between the Zarafasaura tooth and the Squalicorax tooth there are some fish bones fairly densely packed together. I think that this was an original piece of matrix where two teeth were added on either side. The Zarafasaura tooth definitely looks suspicious, on the convex side there looks to be an anomaly parallel to the tooth wherefake martix was added. There is a slight discolouration as well. Possible conclusion #1 when buying fossils in Morocco or from shops: So what we are seeing from the many examples is that, unlike full jaws or single pieces, the vast majority are a real matrix with cheap fossils in as a base while other fossils are added (often broken) in crease their price... from what I know it takes very little time and next to no cost for them to add more broken fossils onto an already cheap matrix... although it might increase the price only by $10, you have to remember these are sold in bulks of hundreds if not thousands at the shops in Morocco, a few extra hours of work could add up to a lot more money. It's similar to factories who install millions of pounds worth of equipment to only save a few pennies on each item... after a while it becomes worth it. By the way I would like to thank everyone here for continuing to discuss and debate these things. Maybe after this settles thread settles down I might write and article from it... Have my history degree be of some use for once... XD Edited January 5, 2016 by lolman1c 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 The seller says this: "QUICK NOTE: Most fossil pieces sold have teeth embedded by local craftsmen in matrix taken from Sahara Desert in the Oulad Abdoun Basin near the Khouribga phosphate plateau region of Morocco, North Africa. THE ONLY STRUCTURES that are natural are the teeth..The root area and jaw regions are "modeled" to represent this region of the tooth. The bones found in that particular region are pieced together to "represent" the jaw AND tooth rooth of this marine reptile....the bones could be anything...from actual Mososaurus, Plesiosaur bones to Enchodus bones. Rarely will a collector find teeth and jaw even remotely close to this.. This representation is great for someone starting out collecting fossils....the teeth are real....the rest is for the most part fabricated from pieces of bone. Still pretty cool though." Although he could be saying this as an insurance because he genuinely doesn't know. I applaud this seller's candor (if not the fabrication process). "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolman1c Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 I applaud this seller's candor (if not the fabrication process). Well i think we have to remember that not all sellers are trying to scam you... I know if I sell anything I try to make it as clear as possible what I am selling and if it is real or not. I put myself in their position and know what it is like to buy a fake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolman1c Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 (edited) Update #1: on the seller who owns the fossils we believe to be genuine and in no way altered: He replied with: "Hi Lolman, Thank you for buying from me and I hope that you are pleased with the fossil. The two terms are merely me being inconsistent with my use of language. I mean that the matrix is natural and as far as I can tell genuine. However no one is perfect and if I do get it wrong I have a money back guarantee so am always willing to accept pieces back if they do turn out to be composited. As an ex-collector myself and a bit of a purist I do try my best to avoid the composite fossils that you describe and my suppliers know and respect this (hopefully). I always handpick the fossils and do my very best to discern the fakes but as you know the Moroccans can be very crafty." As far as I can tell he is telling the truth as I have looked over the fossils he sells and can find no fault with any of them from the pictures, nothing like the fakes that are on here. This means that the theory of the Zarafasaura tooth and the Enchodus jaw being real is most likely because it is. (I shall edit the previous posts). Edited January 5, 2016 by lolman1c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Andy- Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Here are three rooted mosasaur teeth. For these two, the tooth socket is a good indication of it being real. For this one, despite the seemingly different matrix, the bone is obvious and solid. In general, if you are concerned about getting a rooted mosasaur tooth, then go for those free of matrix. 1 Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolman1c Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Here are three rooted mosasaur teeth. You tend to find in the real roots the root mushrooms out while the fakes just have a long cylinder... When the fakes do mushroom out it doesn't look nearly as natural as it does on the real specimens. Edited January 6, 2016 by lolman1c 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franster Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Thank you so much for this post. I saw some of these fossils at a swap meet in Tucson today. I thought they looked fake but now I am armed with knowledge. Thanks so much for breaking all this down for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolman1c Posted January 10, 2016 Author Share Posted January 10, 2016 Thank you so much for this post. I saw some of these fossils at a swap meet in Tucson today. I thought they looked fake but now I am armed with knowledge. Thanks so much for breaking all this down for us. You are more than welcome, I am just here to help everyone as they have helped me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) I came across this obvious fake today. Globidens teeth, fish bones, some sand and some glue. Edited January 12, 2016 by LordTrilobite 2 Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 "Still Life with Shiitake on Log" "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snolly50 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I came across this obvious fake today. Globidens teeth, fish bones, some sand and some glue. Thanks for posting. Do you have access to a photo of the "back" of the piece pictured? I would like to see what the other side looks like. Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Yes. This is the back. Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolman1c Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 I own some real Morocco matrix and once you see the real thing these things just look like handmade bricks... there isn't a single speck of fossil in that matrix and the back looks like a loaf of bread (so can see where it has being cast). These things come from a mine that has billions of fossils, there will like 90% chance it will be with lots of small fossils if it was real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snolly50 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Thanks for posting the reverse. That's just what I wanted to see. The artisan did indeed add tool marks to the matrix "back," but they appear far to uniform to be the remnants of actual excavation. A previous example of "manufactured" matrix that I had seen was completely smooth on the reverse (and all over). It was easy to imagine someone shaping that material. The marks here remind me of the overly orderly faux prep gouges seen in many Moroccan trilobite fantasies. Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, also are remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolman1c Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 Just a quick note: Netflix has a great show on dinosaurs and talks a lot about the creatures found in Morocco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runner64 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Just a quick note: Netflix has a great show on dinosaurs and talks a lot about the creatures found in Morocco.Do you know the name of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolman1c Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 Do you know the name of it? Planet Dinosaur S1: Ep1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 For those without a BBC connection: LINK 1 "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runner64 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Planet Dinosaur S1: Ep1Thanks! Looks like I'm going to have to start the series once I have some free time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelte Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Here is one of the mistakes that I have made when I started collecting fossils. I am really thankful for this forumtopic b/c it has given me the info to determine this is a fake. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runner64 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Here is one of the mistakes that I have made when I started collecting fossils. I am really thankful for this forumtopic b/c it has given me the info to determine this is a fake. Thanks! The crown is real (the tooth). While the root and matrix are fake. You still have a real tooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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