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Kauri gum or pine resin?


nosmada

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Question; what is the difference between kauri gum and pine resin? I have a collection of kauri gum pieces in the rough some of which I have been carving/polishing. I received the following comment regarding one of them.

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"Hi, regarding your "Kauri gum" listing. I am fairly sure that it is "Pine Resin" and not K/Gum! To make sure, touch a lighter-flame to an edge, if it "drips" like a candle, it's Pine resin for sure. No offence intended with this observation."

This opinion is based by looking at the photo alone. I don't know if it is the colour or what else it could be but it is the same colour as a good deal of the kauri gum that I have seen.

So I tried the lighter on a flake from the original polished piece, it didn't drip like a candle but just melted (as it does?).

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However this has piqued my curiosity and I would like to know if anyone can tell me just what is the difference between kauri gum and pine resin?

Also if anyone has an opinion either what my piece is?

Many thanks in advance!

I have added some photos of my collection, can anyone confirm it is kauri gum/copal?

post-20405-0-45826700-1451968008_thumb.jpg post-20405-0-51371200-1451968074_thumb.jpg


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Please dont follow advice re flame. It does not look like pine resin. It looks like Kauri Gum or could even be NZ Amber. Kauri gum/copal can melt. Even so, its is worth a bit of money, too much too be melting and there is a good demand for good pieces even if they are small. What area of NZ do you live in and i will let youk know if there is someone near you who could help. Overseas people do not have much experience as true nz copal is now very rare. All Amber, even Baltic Amber comes from conifers (a pine).

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Please dont follow advice re flame. It does not look like pine resin. It looks like Kauri Gum or could even be NZ Amber. Kauri gum/copal can melt. Even so, its is worth a bit of money, too much too be melting and there is a good demand for good pieces even if they are small. What area of NZ do you live in and i will let youk know if there is someone near you who could help. Overseas people do not have much experience as true nz copal is now very rare. All Amber, even Baltic Amber comes from conifers (a pine).

Hi, and thanks for your reply! :1-SlapHands_zpsbb015b76: Have to say I had never heard of the 'lighter test' - I only used a little bit anyway. I'm in the Manawatu (Palmerston North). Do you have an opinion regarding the rest of the pieces? And what does pine resin actually look like?

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This is a gross oversimplification, but still a good starting point for understanding: All resins, gums, copals, and ambers are tree sap; the difference is in how old they are. The older they are, the more polymerized, and the more resistant to flame.

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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This is a gross oversimplification, but still a good starting point for understanding: All resins, gums, copals, and ambers are tree sap; the difference is in how old they are. The older they are, the more polymerized, and the more resistant to flame.

Thank you, I understand that - what I wanted was just clarification that the pieces I have shown here are Kauri not pine. I myself have no doubt what it is, it smells of Kauri and is not at all crumbly like pine resin when worked with. My query is for the benefit of someone who is casting doubt on the authenticity of my listings.

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I think you can take new member gumdiggerspark's input to the bank; she seems well situated to have learned a thing or two about the subject: LINK

"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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Yes my comment re pines was a generalisation (wasnt sure how much space there was to type in). I will find a contact down your way and come back to you within a few days once the holidays are over. And just a note of caution, if your collection is of a good number, it would pay to note it on your insurance, thefts of collections here in Northland are becoming a problem.

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Thank you to both gumdiggerspark & Auspex for your time and valued advice!

An update on the situation - my reply to the "No offence intended" 'observation' was to the effect that I had received information from an authority on the subject whose expertise undoubtedly surpassed his own and quoted the relevant parts of gumdiggerspark's initial response.

He retorted with "Hi, you say that someone "told you" it might even be Amber, there is no amber in NZ, unless you dug this out of a coal-mine. I still think it is "Pine Resin" of no value. The test I mentioned will verify what it is, why do you not want to try it?".

Charmed I'm sure :blink:

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I tried the red-hot needle test on my Baltic amber once. It worked; the needle barely penetrated it, while it went through my copal. Still not something I'd recommend to other members.

Looking forward to meeting my fellow Singaporean collectors! Do PM me if you are a Singaporean, or an overseas fossil-collector coming here for a holiday!

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Auspex sums it up nicely, it was once a (Kauri) pine resin, thousands of years ago, the degree of fossilisation is the key, it doesn't look like resin and you wouldn't be able to polish it if was. Yes NZ Amber exists, its very rare, a simplified description of the debate relating to Kauri Copal v Kauri Gum v Kauri Amber can be found at http://www.gumdiggerspark.co.nz/kauri-gum-kauri-copal-kauri-gold.html. Bear in mind it is for lay persons.

The needle trick works, with young copal you will also get a definite kauri smell, not so much with the older Copal or Amber as it is much harder (the younger it is the stronger the smell and hence, unfortunately, the older it is the fainter the smell, so the very old copal and Amber can be hard to identify that way). The same when you are polishing it, it will smell, it is distinctive, you will know what you have got. Most copal will smell if you rub your hand over it briskly for a few seconds.When buying it is often ignorance by the seller, (more of a problem with online sales than with purchases from say antique shops) but watch out for glass, plastic, Baltic Amber or (the tricky one) Frankincense and very occasionally Columbian Copal (some of these will also melt so the melt test proves nothing.) The degree of "crazing" doesn't necessarily guarantee that its an old piece and unfortunately most of the larger "inclusions" are fake (although a 100 year old fake has value as a genuine relic).

Not many places handle much of it down your way, but if in Wellington Te Papa, or the better auction houses such as Dunbar Sloane should be able to help. But I'd say you know the answer already. Most of it is likely to be Kauri Copal (commonly called Kauri Gum), some looks like older copal, nice looking pieces and if it had that distinctive smell when you polished it, then that is most certainly what you have. Most people who would want to buy it are experienced and would be 95% sure of what it is by looking at it. Good luck.

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