Ammonite or uncanny lookalike?

[icycatelf]

I took another trip to the creek by my house today since the water had finally gone down. I found a few fossils, some that I could easily identify as Artisia (one of the most-common fossils here), but there were a couple other oddities as well that may or may not be fossils (though I'm not going to be posting most of them). This was the main thing that caught my eye:



I know this area isn't a "true marine deposit," but this thing's resemblance to some polished ammonite fossils that my dad got me last Christmas is uncanny. Is it actually an ammonite (or related species) or just a suggestive rock?

I also found a tube/pipe-shaped rock during my hunt. I'm not sure if it was an oblong nodule that broke off on each end, some heavily-weathered Calamites/Coradaites (or other hollow tree-like plant), bone, or what. Unfortunately, I couldn't get my camera to focus on it just right (my batteries were going dead). If any of you can tell what it is from these blurry photos, however, please let me know what you think!

Edited January 7, 2016 by icycatelf

[howard_l]

The first picture could be a Pennsylvanian Ammonoid, take a stiff pin or something like it and see if you can pick at the middle area. the second rock looks like a burrow of some type.

[abyssunder]

Considering that the specimen looks to have (5?) distally equal deep spaces visible on the external surface and they are not cracks, I believe that could be a Goniatid ammonoid cephalopod.

[icycatelf]

The first picture could be a Pennsylvanian Ammonoid, take a stiff pin or something like it and see if you can pick at the middle area. the second rock looks like a burrow of some type.

I don't really see any parts that I'd be able to get a hold very well to pick at it, plus I'd rather not take an amateur go at it and risk damaging the specimen. I've been wanting to find an ammonite fossil ever since I started collecting 3 months ago and this is the first I've ever came across -- I don't imagine it would be easy for me to find another.

Considering that the specimen looks to have (5?) distally equal deep spaces visible on the external surface and they are not cracks, I believe that could be a Goniatid ammonoid cephalopod.

Huh... I didn't even notice those!

Edited January 7, 2016 by icycatelf

[Herb]

looks like an ammonite to me also

[howard_l]

There are major marine units, the Kendrick Shale, Magoffin bed in your area. Check for dark shale beds along outcrops, if they are marine you will see white shell debris. It is easy to see against the dark shale. You should be able to find straight and coiled nautiloids besides Ammonoids. Good luck.

[Wrangellian]

Note, as some have mentioned, in your Paleozoic rocks you will find ammonoids, not ammonites, technically. True ammonites are Mesozoic, but I guess you're happy to find either, as I would be! (They are related, so I guess it's a hairsplitting thing for me to even mention it)

[Williamrock]

We find some sort like that down in gainsville area! I always assumed they where sea snails due to the area we find fossils in seems like it was a shallow sea or a big tide pool due to the amount of rays teeth and sharks teeth we find tones of small baby teeth!

[Auspex]

We find some sort like that down in gainsville area! I always assumed they where sea snails...

snails.jpg

The coiled objects in the image are snails.

No Paleozoic nor Mesozoic fossils to be found in Gainesville.

[Fossildude19]

Posting the pics here for those who do not wish to leave the Forum or cannot access them.

Regards,

[icycatelf]

There are major marine units, the Kendrick Shale, Magoffin bed in your area. Check for dark shale beds along outcrops, if they are marine you will see white shell debris. It is easy to see against the dark shale. You should be able to find straight and coiled nautiloids besides Ammonoids. Good luck.

I just fossil-hunt right around my house (backyard, front yard, driveway, creek), but I'll keep that in mind if I ever decide to take a special trip. Thanks.

Note, as some have mentioned, in your Paleozoic rocks you will find ammonoids, not ammonites, technically. True ammonites are Mesozoic, but I guess you're happy to find either, as I would be! (They are related, so I guess it's a hairsplitting thing for me to even mention it)

Yeah, I'm super excited anyway (a lot of websites define ammonoid as "an ammonite," so it's close enough for me) -- especially since I was under the impression that I'd never find one or anything similar here.

Posting the pics here for those who do not wish to leave the Forum or cannot access them.

It didn't even occur to me that some people may not be able to see them. Thanks for that.

Edited January 7, 2016 by icycatelf

[icycatelf]

I'll try to take some better pictures on the next clear day to see if I can pick up any details that might help better determine what kind of ammonoid it is (might be a while since we've got some rough weather coming in), but before that...

Does anyone know if I could use vinegar to remove the matrix in the middle without damaging the fossil? I've read that vinegar can dissolve some shells, but I'm not sure if that would apply here (nor do I know what kind of rock the matrix is). I normally like fossils to have excess matrix, but this one just has so little of it that it doesn't really matter to me.

I'd rather not use a pin to pick at it and risk breaking or scratching it, but I also don't have any of the recommended tools (such as mini sandblasters) to prep fossils.

I don't mind leaving it as-is if the risk of damaging it is too high, but it would certainly be neat to see more detail in it.

Edited January 22, 2016 by icycatelf

[howard_l]

You can get an electric engraver to use, they are slow but they do a good job.

[BobWill]

Technically all ammonites are ammonoids but there are ammonoids besides ammonites (goniatites and ceratites).

Your fossil may be too worn to identify from visible features even with some prep but if you can use a geological map to find out which formation you found it in maybe Howard can list the most likely candidates.

[icycatelf]

You can get an electric engraver to use, they are slow but they do a good job.

And here I thought I'd never have use for my Dremel tool. Too bad I gave it away several years ago... =_='

Are there any brands/types you recommend? I saw some cheaper ones (less than $20) @Walmart, but I'm not sure if those would do the trick. I'd rather not put too much into it since I don't have much income (most of which I'm giving to my parents for bills).

Technically all ammonites are ammonoids but there are ammonoids besides ammonites (goniatites and ceratites).

Your fossil may be too worn to identify from visible features even with some prep but if you can use a geological map to find out which formation you found it in maybe Howard can list the most likely candidates.

Yeah, I'm having a really difficult time trying to place it by appearance alone. I don't really see anything that looks quite like the suture lines on the diagrams I've seen. The lines that abyssunder pointed out (which may or may not be cracks) look too straight to be ammonoid to me, although the level of detail in goniatites varies by diagram. There does seem to be some kind of design along the edge (most noticeable in the lower image), although I'm not sure if this is part of the creature or staining, etc.

I'd almost be convinced that it was a nautiloid instead if it wasn't for what appears to be the siphuncle showing on the outer edge (to me, anyway -- no photos of that angle yet).

It was found in the Pikeville formation, if that helps.

Edited January 22, 2016 by icycatelf

[BobWill]

The straight lines abyssunder mentioned are probably constrictions. It's a little hard to see, I missed it completely at first glance. These are ornamentation , not sutures and as he said suggest goniatite.

If you do get an electric prep tool I have had better luck with the vibrating kind of engraving tool instead of the rotary type. It works more like an air scribe but it's hard on your fingers over time and can over-heat with prolonged use.

[icycatelf]

No wonder I couldn't find similar sutures! Thanks for the clarification.

Yeah, I think I would feel safer with a vibrating engraver. I'll definitely try looking into one soon (might be another month or so). I just wish I had more of these to practice on... Maybe I'll hold off on it until I find another, assuming that I can find one.

(Wish I knew someone who did this stuff locally.)

Edited January 22, 2016 by icycatelf

[Guguita2104]

Nice find!

I vote for goniatite, also.

P.S in the taxonomic classification:

Domain:Eukaryota

Kingdom:Animalia

Phyllum:Mollusca

Class:Cephalopoda

SubClass:Ammonoidea

Classes:Goniatitida (lived only during Paleozoic Era);Ceratitida (Paleozoic and Mesozoic);Ammonitida (only Mesozoic).

I think also Howard would have a bunch of candidates for your specimen.

[Wrangellian]

No wonder I couldn't find similar sutures! Thanks for the clarification.

Yeah, I think I would feel safer with a vibrating engraver. I'll definitely try looking into one soon (might be another month or so). I just wish I had more of these to practice on... Maybe I'll hold off on it until I find another, assuming that I can find one.

(Wish I knew someone who did this stuff locally.)

Good, you've hit upon the key difference between them! I should have explained that earlier to save you the time.

I wish I had someone nearby to prep stuff for me too, It seems skilled preppers are thin on the ground, or they don't do other people's stuff. Yours should be a simple/quick job, anyway.