DD1991 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 A new paper regarding a new hadrosaurid from the eastern US is available online: Albert Prieto-Marquez, Gregory M. Erickson and Jun A. Ebersole (2016). "A primitive hadrosaurid from southeastern North America and the origin and early evolution of ‘duck-billed’ dinosaurs". Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology. Online edition: e1054495. doi:10.1080/02724634.2015.1054495. It's no surprise that we have been deciphering the evolution of hadrosauroids and hadrosaurids in North America during the late Turonian to Santonian interval, but the discovery of Eotrachodon provides new insights into the early evolution of hadrosaurids in North America by showing that hadrosaurids co-existed with non-hadrosaurid hadrosauroids in North America during the Santonian. However, the statement by Prieto-Marquez et al. regarding the geographical origin of Hadrosauridae should be taken with a grain of salt because Sebastian Dalman informed me of a soon-to-be-published tyrannosaur species from the Cenomanian of New Jersey and it's possible that a small number of Cenomanian-Turonian species from Asia currently classified as Hadrosauroidea incertae sedis could end up as basal hadrosaurids, in which case it may be clear that hadrosaurids in Laramidia made it to Appalachia during the Cenomanian before the Western Interior Seaway cut off Appalachia from Laramidia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Unfortunately my University has a cheap subscription that includes a 6-month embargo, so I won't be able to read this paper until somewhere around September. I'm very curious about it, as I (along with several members of a fossil club) was involved in the discovery of a remarkably complete hadrosaurid in Santonian strata in Alabama a few years ago. This specimen included a complete skull, mandibles, much of the vertebral column and ribs, and some of the limbs including a foot. I strongly suspect the paper describes that specimen, which I have wondered about for quite a while. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Have not had a chance to read the paper but the holotype is a nearly complete skull from outcrops of uppermost Santonian (Late Cretaceous) strata of the Mooreville Chalk near Montgomery, Montgomery County, Alabama, southeastern U.S.A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 The specimen I mentioned was collected from the base of the Mooreville near Montgomery. If I can confirm that the specimen is the one described in the paper I'll post some photos and tell the story of the discovery. I did not discover the specimen myself by the way, but I was on the trip, helped with the initial excavation, and was the first to realize we had a hadrosaurine, not a jumble of plesiosaur bones. I'll not reveal the exact locality though unless it is given in the paper. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 The acknowledgements read as follows: We thank the members of the Birmingham Paleontological Society, Inc., for discovering and bringing MSC 7949 to the attention of McWane Science Center and James Parham for contacting APM and GME about the specimen. James Lamb (University of West Alabama) skillfully excavated and prepared the specimen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 That's the one! Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 This dinosaur was found by members of the Birmingham Paleontological Society on a club trip. I have a vague recollection that the initial discovery may have been made by a member named Becky (who sometimes posts on the FF), but I may have that wrong. All that showed at first was some not very diagnostic bones (mainly ribs) in a shaly chalk bank. Soon we all congregated at the site and Greg (photo to come) coordinated efforts to very carefully excavate to determine the extent of the discovery. Very quickly it became apparent that there was a large area of disarticulated bone. Greg carrying out the initial exploration: (note: Greg passed away a few years ago. He was a great guy and I miss him.) A limb bone appeared, and then a mandible: By this time it was clear that we were not dealing with a marine reptile, as one might expect from the Mooreville (a marine chalk formation). Greg called up James Lamb, a vertebrate paleontologist (and founding member of the BPS) who was then at the McWane museum in Birmingham. As we waited for James to arrive, we continued trying to determine how far the bone bed extended. Greg and I were uncovering a large smooth gently curved bone, when this popped out. That's when I knew it was a hadrosaurine: Eventually James called to let us know he had arrived where the cars were parked, and I hiked out to meet him and guide him to the site. I told him the fossil was a hadrosaur, and (as I recall) he was very skeptical. By the time we got to the site Greg, Steve, Vicky, and perhaps others had uncovered enough of the mandibles that you could see the tooth batteries. I recall James saying something along the lines of "Holy snarge, it is a dinosaur!" Here is James (skinny guy) uncovering some bone while Greg watched and Vicki took photos: Greg excavating while James supervises: The bone mass in situ: At that point it was more than obvious that this was a major discovery that would require a significant excavation effort. The site was reburied and James returned to the McWane to sort out land ownership issues and organize the actual excavation. This ended up taking some time, I recall more than a week. During that time the dinosaur was not left unguarded. Various members of the BPS took turns camping out nearby and unobtrusively kept eyes on the site to ensure no-one stumbled onto it. I was not able to help with this as I had to return home to teach classes, but several BPS members were very generous with their time and endured the blazing Alabama heat. After some time various issues were sorted out and James was able to coordinate the actual removal of the specimen, which took a couple of days and involved multiple jackets. Here he is with the jacket with the skull, braced for safe transport. Again BPS members were eager to volunteer to assist with the back-breaking effort to get the fossil safely out to the truck for transport back to Birmingham. It was a highlight of my collecting "career" to be there when this dinosaur was discovered, and to help (in a very small way) with the initial work. However I hope I have made it clear that many members of the BPS went above and beyond the call of duty to ensure this fossil was safely delivered for proper scientific study. It is even more gratifying to learn the fossil is a new genus and species, and sheds light on the origin of the hadrosaurine dinosaurs. At the time we thought it might "just" be a more complete example of a known dinosaur, Lophothorion. I think this saga is a perfect example of how amateurs can be the eyes and ears for professional paleontologists. This fossil could have ended up in a private collection, never to be seen by science, or it could have been sold (again only to be lost to science), or it could have been ruined by unskilled collectors. Instead it has become part of our shared experience and knowledge of the natural world. Don edited to add that Greg sent me these photos, I think Vicki took many of them (though obviously not all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Don, this is one of those special fossil collecting stories. Thank you for the backstory a published description often cannot cover. I love it. I've moved this great example of amateur and professional cooperation to the Partners in Paleontology forum. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 ...I think this saga is a perfect example of how amateurs can be the eyes and ears for professional paleontologists. This fossil could have ended up in a private collection, never to be seen by science, or it could have been sold (again only to be lost to science), or it could have been ruined by unskilled collectors. Instead it has become part of our shared experience and knowledge of the natural world... Amen, Brother Don! Just s couple years to publication? That is comparatively quick. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Well more than a couple of years, but still pretty quick. About 5 or 6 I think. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtdauber Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Great report, Don! Thanks. --- George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 OH MY GOODNESS!!!!! It has been released, i've been waiting for this! About a month ago Jun told me a new Hadrosaur would be publicised, and I've just been here chewing my nails in anticipation. Has anyone actually read the new published material? I'm not subscribed to this Journal sadly. I was emailing Jun in regards to Hadrosaur bones I've recovered, at which time, an interest was expressed in regards to any Hadrosaur teeth I had recovered in association. Now that the story is out, I presume it to be okay to post what was told to me; the new Hadrosauridae sp. is difficult to determine with postcranial bones, the teeth of this dinosaur are diagnostic, also the cranial bones. I have been and still am extremely interested in pics of the teeth and skull. Awhahaha, I been about to jump out of my shoes waiting on photos of the teeth. Don,thank you so much for posting the tooth pic (among others) & that outstanding report. DD1991, thank you also for bringing this Journal release to everyone's attention! --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Don, is there anything further that you can relate about the teeth? Or any other teeth photos you may have? --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Don, is there anything further that you can relate about the teeth? Or any other teeth photos you may have? The name "Eotrachodon" gives a clue: "trachodon" means "rough tooth". "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Now that the paper on Eotrachodon orientalis has been published, the Birmingham Paleontological Society has set up a web page to publicize the story of the discovery and excavation of the specimen. I made a couple of errors in my account, the most significant of which was that the specimen was initially discovered by BPS member Dr. Jan Novak, not Becky. Also the entire excavation took about three weeks. The BPS page can be found here. Not only is the full story given, there are several pages of photos of the excavation. The excavation was directed by Dr. James Lamb, but the enthusiastic participation of many BPS members is highly evident in the photos. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Don, is there anything further that you can relate about the teeth? Or any other teeth photos you may have? Check the photos in the link, there are a few that show the teeth. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Thank you sir,you are a tremendous help, and a very outgoing person when asked for assistance. --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 The link to the BPS page worked for me at home, but on my work computer it does not (I get an "access forbidden" message). If people try it, can they post a quick note about if it worked for them or not? Thanks, Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 ...post a quick note about if it worked for them or not? Like a charm "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessees Pride Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 It works on Chrome mobile. --- Joshua tennesseespride@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Great! Must be some weird firewall at work. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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