How do you ensure a retailer acquired their fossils legally and ethically?

[Mombo]

I have just recently gotten into the hobby, and beyond picking up a mosasaur tooth, I haven't really purchased much of anything yet. When I do eventually purchase some pieces, I want the pieces I buy to be acquired by the retailer legally and ethically.

So, I ask you all the following questions.

What questions can I ask a retailer or what questions should I ask a retailer? What should I be looking for in a retailer? How do I ensure that the piece I'm interested in wasn't stolen from a dig site or illegally smuggled?

[Mike from North Queensland]

This will be an interesting topic as there is going to be varied answers and a lot of grey area.

Firstly an understanding of the laws relating to fossils of the country of origin will be a great help.

The claim that a fossil came from an old estate is to me dubious at best as the providence most likely will never be proven and this can be used to infer the item was exported prior to bans.

Some of the long term members here should be able to recommend some honest traders where country of origin is an issue, remember it may be illegal to export the fossil but not illegal to sell the fossil once in another country and this is the ethical

problem with the trade. I would start with fossils found in your country and look at fun of collecting your own specimens.

Mike D

[Auspex]

It would be good to familiarize yourself with the applicable laws of the fossil exporting countries, and objects from those with the strictest regulation should be assumed contraband until proven otherwise. Iron-clad provenience is any fossil's greatest asset in any case.

[Troodon]

I think you should start with suppliers that have a proven track record and focus on fossils from countries that do not have laws against exportation of fossils. A lot dealers do not collect just purchase fossils from diggers or other wholesale suppliers so they would never know the real source. Why you should stick with recommended suppliers.

[Mombo]

I think you should start with suppliers that have a proven track record and focus on fossils from countries that do not have laws against exportation of fossils. A lot dealers do not collect just purchase fossils from diggers or other wholesale suppliers so they would never know the real source. Why you should stick with recommended suppliers.

But, how do you ensure that the supplier has a proven track record?

I guess my big concern, and this is coming from an American, is that I go to a shop or rock and mineral show and see a piece I like. What do I do then?

[Runner64]

But, how do you ensure that the supplier has a proven track record?

I guess my big concern, and this is coming from an American, is that I go to a shop or rock and mineral show and see a piece I like. What do I do then?

Ask the seller for the precise location, when it was found, and how they got the tooth. If they can't answer these questions, I would be skeptical of the seller. Your most important tool when buying a fossil is your brain and the internet.

Having an idea of what you're about to buy is probably a good idea as well. Non-reputable dealers will take advantage of people's ignorance. You can spot fakes easily and can also find good deals from mislabeled fossils.

[Troodon]

But, how do you ensure that the supplier has a proven track record?

I guess my big concern, and this is coming from an American, is that I go to a shop or rock and mineral show and see a piece I like. What do I do then?

If you are that worried about purchasing fossils maybe you shouldn't. Most fossil dealers are reputable and the members in the forum can give you some good advice on those suppliers they have dealt with.

[jpc]

If you are that worried about purchasing fossils maybe you shouldn't.

Save up your fossil budget and go on fossil hunting trips. While New England is about as lousy as you can get in the lower 48 for fossils, there are many places a day's drive from New England where you can find your own fossils, and not have to worry about place of origin. You may even find after a few of these outings, that the appeal of buying those things int he fossil shop just don't compare to finding your own.

[Mombo]

Save up your fossil budget and go on fossil hunting trips. While New England is about as lousy as you can get in the lower 48 for fossils, there are many places a day's drive from New England where you can find your own fossils, and not have to worry about place of origin. You may even find after a few of these outings, that the appeal of buying those things int he fossil shop just don't compare to finding your own.

That's been the game plan thus far. This summer I'm planning on heading to Calvert Cliffs. As for my main question, I'll just use my common sense. If it's too good to be true, it probably is.

[Boesse]

I second JP's comment. The only way to know 100% whether or not a fossil is collected legally is to dig it up yourself and know exactly where you are on a map. Besides, the absolute best part of paleontology is going out and finding it. Digging the fossil up yourself versus buying it is a bit analogous to the difference between an artist and an art collector - the reward is higher and the cost is (usually) lower.

[erose]

Books and gasoline. That's where my money goes.

[Ridgehiker]

I can only speak from those areas I know of. I would never buy a Dino fossil on line from any source. 80% are misidentified or lack enough information to be more than a nice object rather than a scientific specimen.

'China' or ' Montana' or 'Alberta, or 'Morocco' is not a location.

No Formation mentioned nullifies any genus.

And if info is present is it legitimate and correct. If so...why? Who collected the specimen and what reference was used to identify it? If the seller can't provide this, then don't look twice at a specimen.

Bottom line...I agree with most others. Save your dollars and plan a vacation that includes fossil collecting. The only fossils worth buying is a reference set... A specimen of a brachiopod, ammonite, coral, etc. Just to have one of each as a physical sample what to look for.

Trading fossils can be fine 'if' trading with the original finder. Otherwise, again, the bulk of fossils either lack info or have incorrect info.

[Harry Pristis]

I have just recently gotten into the hobby, and beyond picking up a mosasaur tooth, I haven't really purchased much of anything yet. When I do eventually purchase some pieces, I want the pieces I buy to be acquired by the retailer legally and ethically.

So, I ask you all the following questions.

What questions can I ask a retailer or what questions should I ask a retailer? What should I be looking for in a retailer? How do I ensure that the piece I'm interested in wasn't stolen from a dig site or illegally smuggled?

I'd say that the legality and ethics of the retailer's source of a fossil is not your responsibility . . . unless you try to make it so. If you do so, expect to be rebuffed.

There are a lot of things we must accept on faith, the lawfulness and ethics of others is one of them, until proved otherwise. You and I have no control of another's behavior. Where there are societal sanctions on behavior, we cautiously assume that the sanctions are working to keep everyone's behavior on the straight and narrow.

Without those sanctions and the assumptions that attend, we would never dare to leave the house (and wouldn't feel safe there). For example, when driving to work on any city street, we assume that societal sanctions against drunk driving will keep an oncoming drunk driver from swerving into our lane causing a life-threatening accident. If we couldn't make that assumption, why would we ever drive on a city street? The fact that such assumptions are sometimes faulty only illustrates our reliance on assumptions and probability.

There are endless examples about the assumptions we MUST rely upon to function on a daily basis. Buying a meal at a restaurant or buying a fossil are fraught with assumptions (which are PROBABLY reliable). In life, fastidiousness leads to paralysis.

[Fossil Claw]

I'd say that the legality and ethics of the retailer's source of a fossil is not your responsibility . . . unless you try to make it so. If you do so, expect to be rebuffed.

There are a lot of things we must accept on faith, the lawfulness and ethics of others is one of them, until proved otherwise. You and I have no control of another's behavior. Where there are societal sanctions on behavior, we cautiously assume that the sanctions are working to keep everyone's behavior on the straight and narrow.

Without those sanctions and the assumptions that attend, we would never dare to leave the house (and wouldn't feel safe there). For example, when driving to work on any city street, we assume that societal sanctions against drunk driving will keep an oncoming drunk driver from swerving into our lane causing a life-threatening accident. If we couldn't make that assumption, why would we ever drive on a city street? The fact that such assumptions are sometimes faulty only illustrates our reliance on assumptions and probability.

There are endless examples about the assumptions we MUST rely upon to function on a daily basis. Buying a meal at a restaurant or buying a fossil are fraught with assumptions (which are PROBABLY reliable). In life, fastidiousness leads to paralysis.

Ditto. Live mas.

[Auspex]

Aside from ethics, several purposes are served by being a savvy collector, not the least of which is the acquisition of specimens with better provenience. Here, we would all benefit by demanding better.