Terry Dactyll Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Ive been quite active collecting down in Lyme Regis in Dorset for the last few years and although its pretty difficult going due to the commercial collecting pressure, every now and again a 'Gem' turns up....... I was down there 2 weeks back and spent some time investigating something I had noticed previously but discounted, and this time I'm glad I spent that time..... after seeking expert advice as far as I know it could be the first of its type found there, I dont know this for sure until I get it out and see the centre.... Unfortunately my compressors down so It will be a couple of weeks before I get the parts to repair it..... typical hey!! Ive wet it so the ammonite colour stands out from the limestone, it has a 1-2 mm thick calcite shell on and is 20 " across the ammonite..... I'll let you see it when it finished...... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommabetts Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Can't wait to see it when you are finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 How's that compressor coming along? "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted May 19, 2009 Author Share Posted May 19, 2009 mommabetts & Auspex........... Thanks for your interest..... I had a look, but wasnt sure but my compressor is Just out of Warranty to I rang up and asked if they mended them.... they said they have a guy that comes and there initial cost to have him check it over is £20... so i thought id be clever and cut out the middle man and arranged my own compressor specialist.... he didnt show up!!!..... so I wasted a week expecting him to appear, and ended up taking it in anyway.... so im waiting for a phonecall.... The one I have is only 60 litres and struggles with say a die grinder or air chisel... so realistically I think i need 150 litres plus..... I will show you some photos when its finished, i cant wait to see it myself..... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamalama Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 If it's this hard to get it open it will be a sure winner! Good luck! -Dave __________________________________________________ Geologists on the whole are inconsistent drivers. When a roadcut presents itself, they tend to lurch and weave. To them, the roadcut is a portal, a fragment of a regional story, a proscenium arch that leads their imaginations into the earth and through the surrounding terrain. - John McPheeIf I'm going to drive safely, I can't do geology. - John McPheeCheck out my Blog for more fossils I've found: http://viewsofthemahantango.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Hi..... I got my compressor back thursday so ive been itching to get some time in on this ammonite.... Its from a different layer than the big coroniceras I normally prep so the preservation is totally different, the body chamber is mainly mud infil, and the shell is almost non existant, less that 1/2 a mm thick when its there....... but fortunately, its not crushed on the outer whorls which was my biggest worry.... theres a few patches where the suture lines are missing at the junction of the body chamber, Ive seen big ammonites crush there, maybe wheres theres been a gas pocket from rotting down of the animal inside which didnt allow complete sediment infil........ but now its looking very promising..... Theres a few area's where black & orange calcite have formed, a square on the base where its still attached to the rock, the top keel area, and its looking promising where the second whorl starts..... Hope you like it so far, it will be finished next time you see it.... The ammonites 20" across Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traviscounty Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 That's really sweet! How much will it cost you to ship that to me here in Texas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted June 7, 2009 Author Share Posted June 7, 2009 Traviscounty....... I think it would be cheaper to buy it a plane ticket lol......... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamalama Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Wow, it looks great! Have you figured out what it is yet? -Dave __________________________________________________ Geologists on the whole are inconsistent drivers. When a roadcut presents itself, they tend to lurch and weave. To them, the roadcut is a portal, a fragment of a regional story, a proscenium arch that leads their imaginations into the earth and through the surrounding terrain. - John McPheeIf I'm going to drive safely, I can't do geology. - John McPheeCheck out my Blog for more fossils I've found: http://viewsofthemahantango.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Shamalama.......Im not 100% sure.... its a very rare ammonite for the area, especially complete..... I did hear there might be one in a museum in England that was bought as part of a large private ammonite collection..... Im phoning them tomorrow to see if this is true and to hopefully get an image..... Sulciferites and the similar Charmassiceras have been mentioned and both of these were assigned to Angulaticeras.... also it looks like a Schlotheimia intermedia from the reference material I have....Hopefully I can get a possitive ID from an ammonite expert here in the UK when ive finished prepping it..... I got the middle out today..... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonmoth Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 its looking fantastic already steve!!! lol can i come out with you for ammonite hunting lessons sometime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommabetts Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 That is Beautiful, you have done a great job on prepping it. Let us know when you find out for sure what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 moonmoth......You would of spotted that easily lol...... and found it by 'touch' blindfolded there was so much sticking out of the rock.... im supprised considering its the most heavily commercially collected section of coast we have it was still there, and had been there long enough for seaweed to grow on it..... maybe the cost of prepping these monsters puts them off ......which i dont have to worry about..... its a labour of love to me....... mommabetts.... I thought you might like to see it finished and thanks for your kind words.... Im on the case now emailing , trying to get a definitive ID......I will definately let you know..... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicranurus Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Wow. What an ammonite! Really nice prepping. "It seems to me that the natural world is the greatest source of excitement; the greatest source of visual beauty; the greatest source of intellectual interest. It is the greatest source of so much in life that makes life worth living." -Sir David Attenborough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cat shark Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Very nice and great prep work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful fossil! Please keep us posted. "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlichia Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Hi Terry, How always your preparations and the your examples stun!!! Thanks for showing these beauties and your skill!!! Cheers, Red ->>>>> < Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted June 11, 2009 Author Share Posted June 11, 2009 Didranurus & cat shark.......Thanks, I'm very pleased with it myself.... Auspex......I will let you know what its name is IF I get an ID....maybe we will have to make one up... Redlichia.....I prep for myself and not for financial reasons, I just put more care into them.... The usual Monmouth ammonites like in my avitar are only prepped by maybe 2 or 3 people here in the uk, and they rush them, break the ribs off and fill em, then end up painting the whole thing to disguise their mistakes....I like them looking as nature intended, to see the colours in the calcite shell, so its worth a few more hours taking your time to get it right, instead of thinking about the 'fast buck'...... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 Got an ID..... of a few ID's... lol..... I had emailed one of our british ammonite experts, but had given up on getting a reply... Little did I know people have lives other than just thinking about fossils and he had been very busy doing other stuff....based on that i had emailed the Natural History Museum as well..... Our Natural History Museum experts reckon it could be a very large Schlotheima...although a more detailed examination of the sutures and centre would divuldge a better idea... from photographs its not that straight forward.... Our ammonite expert very kindly spent some time and wrote this.... I do hope he doesnt mind me putting it on here.... ive obviously edited out names etc..... ''I know this Lower Sinemurian Schlotheimid ammonite very well. I’ve encountered it commonly and in situ in the Bristol area where it occurs in the Conybeari Subzone of the Bucklandi Zone (and is especially characteristic of the Coroniceras rotator Biohorizon of Page). However, putting an appropriate name to it is another matter! The systematics of the Family Schlotheimiidae is fraught with difficulties and there are issues concerning both the genus and species to which we should assign this ammonite. It took me years to understand that in palaeontology there are seldom ‘correct names’ – there are more often only opinions. This is particularly the case where (as is so common in the Lias) the type specimens of species are poor examples that have come from unknown stratigraphical horizons, hence newly discovered specimens cannot be easily matched to them. As I’ll try to explain, naming your ammonite is largely a matter of subjective taxonomy: Your example is certainly a complete adult macroconch, and the best match that I know of figured in the literature is with Ammonites greenoughi Sowerby 1816. This specimen was refigured (as Amaltheus greenoughi) in Wright’s monograph (1878-86). The specimen is from an uncertain location (possibly Lyme Regis, possibly Somerset) and unknown horizon. We therefore cannot match it with certainty to a species from a known horizon, although if I could track it down (possibly at the BGS, Nottingham) I might be able to work out its provenance. Although this specimen was subsequently referred to by Donovan in his 1954 supplement to Wright’s monograph as Sulciferites greenoughi (Sowerby), the species name has seldom been used since. Instead, most Schlotheimid ammonites with similar morphology from the Conybeari Subzone have been referred to D’Orbigny’s (1844) species, Ammonites charmassei D'Orbigny, which Spath (1924) subsequently made type species of the genus Charmasseiceras . D’Orbigny’s specimen was a juvenile macroconch (these being more commonly encountered than complete adults), and was again of uncertain stratigraphy. In my view it may be regarded as a junior subjective synonym of Sowerby’s species. The next question concerns what genus to assign the species to. There are three candidates: Angulaticeras Quenstedt 1883 Sulciferites Spath 1922 Charmasseiceras Spath 1924 All these differ from the Hettangian genus Schlotheimia Bayle 1878 by having bifurcating (as opposed to simple, undividing) ribs. As noted above, Charmasseiceras is morphologically a very close match to your ammonite, but the genus Sulciferites (created for Schlotheimia sulcifer Buckman {type species}, based on a small type specimen) is almost certainly the microconch or inner whorls of the same kind of ammonite (Charmasseiceras). As Sulciferites is an earlier name (by 2 years) it has priority. Therefore, most ammonite taxonomists regard Charmasseiceras as a junior synonym of Sulciferites. So, the next decision is whether to regard Sulciferites as a distinct entity from Angulaticeras. Some authors e.g. Gert Bloos prefer to include all the compressed involute Schlotheimids with bifurcating ribs in the genus Angulaticeras (which has priority over Sulciferites through date 1883 vs. 1922). Others, such as Kevin Page and also myself prefer to retain Sulciferites as a separate genus. In my view, there is a case for separating (as Sulciferites) ammonites such as yours with its distinct body chamber with a comparatively broad and blunt venter from Angulaticeras in which the venter becomes acute and the ribbing is denser. Therefore I would be inclined to assign your specimen to Sulciferites and I would assign it to a species comparable with (cf.), but (as we don’t know the horizon) not necessarily identical to Ammonites greenoughi Sowerby, hence: Sulciferites cf. greenoughi (Sowerby). (note use of brackets for the author when his species is re-assigned to a different genus). '' Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamalama Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Wow, very good letter that you received from your Natural History Museum. It presents the facts and conclusions very well, I almost thought I was reading a professional paper! -Dave __________________________________________________ Geologists on the whole are inconsistent drivers. When a roadcut presents itself, they tend to lurch and weave. To them, the roadcut is a portal, a fragment of a regional story, a proscenium arch that leads their imaginations into the earth and through the surrounding terrain. - John McPheeIf I'm going to drive safely, I can't do geology. - John McPheeCheck out my Blog for more fossils I've found: http://viewsofthemahantango.blogspot.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspex Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Wow, very good letter that you received from your Natural History Museum. It presents the facts and conclusions very well, I almost thought I was reading a professional paper! From what I read, that is not the Museum's response, but comes from a "civilian"! "There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant “Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley >Paleontology is an evolving science. >May your wonders never cease! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Steve, thanks for a "behind the scenes" glance at your prep and research. It is a large beauty! Especially since you spotted it in a heavily collected area. Can you tell us what some of your final prep "treatments" were without giving up too many trade secrets? Thanks. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted June 19, 2009 Author Share Posted June 19, 2009 Auspex..... Yes you read right.... I'm very happy he took the time to do that for me.... I really am....Its a wonderful letter, just like Shamalama said, like a scientific paper......I put a lot into the fossil from finding it, to extracting it, and making it so i could even move it the half mile back to the car.... then finally prepping it.... It meant a lot to me.... and so to me the tone of the response reflects that to.......It finishes the story.... JohnJ........ The finish on that specimen is clear marble floor wax..... Its the only thing Ive found that doesnt 'taint' the natural colour or sheen of the calcite shell.....I know a lot of people use artists varnish.....If you have any specific questions, feel free to contact me.... Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleozoicfish Posted June 21, 2009 Share Posted June 21, 2009 Wow, nice piece! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Dactyll Posted June 23, 2009 Author Share Posted June 23, 2009 Thanks..... I never bothered with location piccys.... maybe I should..... Ive included a link to a website with some information of the area I found the ammonite.... If you scroll down there are some nice photos..... and also links to other sections of that coastline..... http://www.soton.ac.uk/~imw/lyme.htm Cheers Steve... And Welcome if your a New Member... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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